Korean Job Discussion Forums

[milasco]

Hi all,

I've seen a few advertisements on different sites from this university advertising their free TESOL Cert. for teaching freshman English classes, and after completing the Cert. they offer you a position in their summer or winter camp.

Here is the link to their main page:
http://international.gsnu.ac.kr/main.html?p_no=4&right=sub4/right1.html
And the ad that was posted here on Dave's:
http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/korea/index.cgi?read=13977

So I'm just curious if anyone has any experience or opinions on this? Anyone know the recognized North American institution this is offered in conjunction with? How are the camps?

I'll be graduating (BA in English/Spanish double major) in December. I am interested in TESOL, but don't have any experience or certification and this kind of program seems to appeal more to me than blindly going and working for a school under 1 year's contract!

Thanks in advance for any info.
Scott

[milasco]

No takers? Not even to tell me that certification isn't necessary to teach in Korea?

Oh well, I think I'll get in contact with them and ask some questions (like who the North American affiliate is). And maybe give it a shot. I'll post an update if anything comes of it.

[Milwaukiedave]

milasco,

What do you want to know?

The program is new and nothing like this has ever been done before. It would be hard to tell you just want to expect.

My understanding is that TESOL is a very valueable if you want to teach ESL. I'm not sure how recognized it would be in North America.

If you have any questions you can pm me and I'll try to answer them.

David

[lissilu]

ahah, I found where the next round of Gyeonsang TESOLers may be hiding on Dave's ESL

I did the program this semester, just graduated. Feel free to fire away questions, if you're interested. If you come - we'll probably meet on the front steps of the dormitories as I move out and you move in...

The North American partner school is UCSC, University of California Santa Cruz. I came with no teaching experience, and for me it was deinitely preferable to signing an uknown contract. Not perfect mind you, but preferable.

pm me for more details, if u like

[Derrek]

It really sounds like a nice deal, but you aren't making any money for a semester. Definately a good idea for someone planning to use the credit for a further education. The course could only help you improve your abilities.

I'm sure the experience would be excellent, however I personally don't have an interest in investing a full semester in something that will only help me get a job in Korea, or a few other places (i'm not planning to further my education with an MA in TESOL).

If I were younger, I'd have a lot more fun with something like that.

[canukteacher]

They had a table set up at the recent conference in Pusan. I went by several times, but there was never anyone there. I do know that they were recently advertising for a director for the program. If they don't have a director in place yet, I wonder what the program will be like?

Sorry I can't tell you any more than that. They also advertised for lecturers, and I think there may have been a telephone number on the ad. You might want to search the ads, find the number and give the contact person a call.

Good luck!

CT

[guangho]

canukteacher I spoke with them in Pusan. The deal is that you teach camp for free (except room and board)in exchange for the free TESOL course. The best part, at least from my perspective, is that the credits earned can be counted towards an M.A.- or so they say.

[D-Train]

Hey lissilu,

I just got accepted for the next course so I have lots of questions. If you could answer any of them it would be great.

What are your overall impressions of the course? Worth it? I know the first 3 weeks are supposed to be pretty full on. Could you recommend doing any sort of 'pre-emptive' study for the course now? I don't have much to do now so I may as well be doing something constructive.

What was the accommodation like? 3 per dorm? Internet access?

I know that the program offers, free accommodation, meals, etc., but how much money do you think I should bring for other things (excursions, going out, etc.?).

After you complete the course, what are the classes you teach like at the university? What was the size of the class? Was it for 3 hours a day?? Did you do any of the extra classes (3 to 6 hrs a week for 300,000 to 600,000 won????).

What was the camp like at the end of the course? Do you really get paid US$1000 a week??

Did many of the course graduates stay on at the university to teach??

Sorry, I know that there are lots of (stupid) questions in there. If you could answer any I'd be most appreciative.

Thanks a lot,

D-Train

[Milwaukiedave]

As someone mentioned, yes they are looking for a director and did not have a permanent director in place during the last TESOL course. When I left, they still had not hired someone.

Kevin, the guy that was running the program last term is a nice guy and has a great sense of humor. Unfortuately, with all the problems, he found himself drowning most of the time trying to solve things. Most of this was due to the fact that the Korean's running the program don't plan ahead.

I'd say if they don't have a permanent director by the time the program starts, they are going to be hurting yet again. This is just common sense.

Personally I've had many negative experiences associated with the program.

[Milwaukiedave]

[butter808fly]

I was just accepted into the program as well. Im a little nervous about this whole thing for a couple of reasons. For one, I dont get paid for 5 months! Only 1 month of this is actual education, as I understand it, and the rest is teaching freshmen English with some feedback. Is this right?

Milwaukiedave - do you recommend the program? it sounds disorganized and, I didnt think there would be a job at the end of this rainbow, but are you happy that you went through the education and teaching?

Im also curious how many other native English speakers are part of the program.

Should I just get a job and read a book? I want to be a better teacher.

[Derrek]

I advise everyone to hold off on worrying about getting a TEFL/TESL certification at this time. Unless you absolutely must have it NOW.

The reason is that, according to EFL-Law.com, the Korean gov't is planning to decide what TEFL/TESL certifications they may accept or "recognize."

http://efl-law.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=643


"Secondly, the issue of false TESL Certificates and Scam operations was raised by MOE officials - & False Degrees were raised by other members. It was well understood how easy it is to buy a Certificate/Degree on line. "

"Other issues discussed went to the qualifications of teachers coming to Korea. We will, at some stage, see a major change in who will be coming to Korea in the future to teach - I won't hazard a guess when- but change will happen legislatively. "

also, in regards to this issue, and setting up a foreigner "help center":

"I can't say "when" but I do believe we are now in the "tunnel" and although we can't see the light at the end, we are driving much faster to the light and it is going to happen. "

Too many online (and offline) courses are offered that just aren't worth much. According to the EFL-Law guy, the Korean gov't knows this.

At this point, I'm guessing only the CELTA and Trinity courses are going to be safe bets, along with a recognized course from a university. The CELTA is recognized because it is affiliated with a University. I'm not sure about the Trinity, but I believe it is also attached to a University program.

I'm not sinking big money into any other program at the moment. There are some really slick courses out there, costing as much or more than a CELTA, which in reality have no true acceptance or "real" educational body accrediting them. Some enterprising people in Korea and abroad have learned that setting up a TESL/TEFL certification course is a great way to find teachers to teach your hagwon courses for free -- actually one better -- the teachers pay THEM to teach THEIR hagwon courses. They hire a couple of "trainers," who are also their hagwon teachers, who may or may not have any qualifications other than taking the same course themselves, and POOF! Add a website, and poof have a TEFL/TESL certification program they charge you from 1 to 3.4 million won for.

My guess is that this camp is nothing more than that. You work several weeks for NO PAY, and they present you with a TESL/TEFL certificate.

Sadly, at the moment, my employer is requiring me to get a TESL/TEFL certification. I am taking the cheapest online course that meets the requirement (I got it accepted), because the fact is that whatever I take may be worth squat after the Korean gov't applies some rules to these "certifications" (it's coming). Besides, 90% of employers in Korea don't know or care much about them, anyway.

I'd much rather spend $300 on a course that is going to be worth squat next, year, than spend 1.4 million and up plus airfare on a course with no accredidation.

And as a warning: Many of these courses belong to defacto groups where a number of these dodgy courses simply band together, set up a "name" for their accrediting body, and pay a fee to have it run. Any group who pays the fee becomes magically accredited by XXXX.

Bottom line -- these courses are a crappin' joke. Sure, you might learn something, but you'd better hold off until you know what's going to be accepted. If you must get something, go for a CELTA or recognized University course. Unless you're just forced to pass some stupid requirement by your boss, like I am currently. Then go for whatever the absolute cheapest bargain-basement options is: 300,000 won online course. Hey, they said that'd be OK, so I'm going that route.




Additional quotes from EFL-Law: http://www.efl-law.com/Tesol_Certificates.html


"Misleading & Deceptive Practices:

a) You will notice some TESOL Certificate sites LINK to Universities - this is intended to give the impression that that University accredits the course- yet nowhere do you actually find this supported by the University.

b) You will notice some TESOL Certificate sites contain banner links to Better Business Bureaus to give the impression this course is approved - in fact it is not. The link is merely placed to give that impression.

c) Some TESOL Certificate Courses claim they have years of unblemished operation and are complaint free - they provide what appear are banner links to Government organization that control Consumer Complaints - in fact the suggested link is meaningless.

d) Some courses offer 120 hours Courses. In fact NO-ONE will examine your work whatsoever. You submit and receive a follow up that your work is exceptional - in fact your work has not been viewed at all.

e) One TESOL course operating out of Canada will, once you pay the fee, issue you a certificate that says what YOU WANT it to say.

f) Some TESOL Certificates also suggest that the 'best jobs' can be obtained through the same company. Note our pages on Recruiters and the Warnings -


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is no world Accrediting Authority to say which TESOL/TEFL course is good or bad. The British Council is a defacto accrediting authority.

ANYONE can open a web site and offer a TESOL CERTIFICATE course - some apparent legitimate courses are operating out of Russia for example.

A recent practice to hit the TEFL industry is the on-line TESOL certificates, which, whilst some companies offer professional courses run by well experienced and qualified staff, others are run by those who have discovered how easy it is to make U.S. $200-500 by offering a TEFL/TESOL Certificate Course on-line. Some course are run by persons who have no qualifications, no genuine interest in promoting the TEFL industry, and whose only ability is to generate misleading auto generated responses to questions and e-mail's followed by a glossy certificate of achievement.

We would recommend that any one who is contemplating spending any money on a TESOL/TEFL certificate make inquiries as to whether the company offering the Course is a Legal Entity or a Scam. You should also determine if that certificate is accepted by the Governmental Education Authority of the country you wish to teach in. Few countries require this certificate for you to teach there.

Before undertaking any course, ask the question:-

(a) Is this course really necessary {a few EFL/ESL countries do require a recognized certificate}
(b) Is the Certificate recognized in the country I am going to?
(c) Is the Certificate recognized or even required by my prospective employer?
(d) Am I buying a Certificate for the sake of having one, or am I learning something practical that will help me teach and advance my skills.
(e) Does the course have an ironclad money back guarantee should you decide to withdraw or find the course to be substandard.

In most cases, you will find that if you have a University degree, you do not need the Certificate as you will get on the job training - but confirm this with your employer to be.

Canada.

The following information is very important if you are living in Canada and plan on doing a TESOL Course.

In Canada, quite a few of the less reputable training programs assure prospective students of their bona fides by stating that they are "recognized" by a federal government department called Human Resources Development Canada (HRDC). This very rudimentary form of "recognition" assures students of nothing except the ability to claim tuition as a tax write-off, and if they're eligible for unemployment insurance-funded job training, the ability to get their tuition subsidized if the program is full-time. Programs at Canadian universities are also recognized by HRDC; it's a status taken so much for granted that most reputable post secondary institutions don't think to mention it unless asked. If a TEFL program that can legally claim HRDC recognition does not meet national or provincial TESL association accreditation standards, it does not give the student any advantage in the Canadian job market.

Every year, a lot of Canadians complete inadequate TEFL programs that draw them in by advertising HRDC recognition.
"

[canukteacher]

I have my masters, and had sent them my resume. I also indicated that if they would be in Pusan during the conference I would be happy to meet with them. I got an email back telling me that they would contact me AFTER the conference if they wanted to pursue my application further. In fact, they never even said that they would be at the Conference.
I wasn't suggesting an interview at the Conference. I simply wanted to introduce myself.

I would be very careful. If they have nobody in place by now how are they going to have a quality program designed or become familiar with whatever was used last year?

Personally, I think that Korean universities see "big bucks" in these progams. Yes, you spend nothing out of pocket, but you have to look at the quality of the program. A "free" program that does not meet minimum academic standards isn't worth much except in Korea. How do you gage if this Masters will be accepted outside of Korea?

The program is also not free. You pay the tutition back by working one of their camps, and I am sure they will require maximum hours. I am curious. Has anyone been told how long the camps are, and daily/weeking working hours?

Maybe the warning here is "Nothing in Life is Free." and add IN KOREA
CT

[Milwaukiedave]

Derrick,

Insightful information, thanks for sharing it. I guess there are so many scam programs out there that you pay for, the government has to be careful to figure out how they are going to recognize TESOL certificates as a whole. It makes sense though.

[Milwaukiedave]

Butter808fly,

As to making comments directly on Dave's ESL about the GSNU program I won't other then what I've posted.

Why? I'll tell you exactly. Because I was directly threatened if I put negative comments about the program that disparaging comments would be made about myself on here.

If you want more info, I'll be glad to give it to you in private.