|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
|
 Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:43 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Suuuure, and they could also be right outside your door listening to you type on your keyboard. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
fancypants
Joined: 22 May 2005
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
my friend got busted in the aforementioned sweep. it was at star tower in yeoksam and apparently they nabbed 12 teachers while they were teaching. whoever alluded to the "prominent adult hogwan" outsourcing company was on the money. just desserts.
immigration told my friend that they were going to come down on kangnam hard and then branch out to other areas. i think whoever said that it's a seasonal thing is correct. i think you can shelf your valium come august 1.
it is legal to do privates as long as you have written permission from your e2 sponsor and instruction takes place in a classroom. i think there is a minimum requirement for enrollment. it costs 60K to get jobs put on your visa. i am pretty sure your earnings shouldn't exceed what you get from your e2 job.
teachers have repeatedly asked recruiters over the years to make them legit but they categorically refuse. as of now, they had nothing to gain and everything to lose from it (makes them redundant and they dont' get to pocket the 40%-60% of the money the student pays for you). they are pimps.
as for the "uneducated workers from poor countries" you are woefully mistaken. not to sound classist, but most of these workers are from the middle and upper classes and hold univeristy degrees. i know migrant workers who are ex-physics professors, english professors, teachers, engineers, not counting the others who hold bachelor's degrees and came here right after uni. they are working 3d jobs in factories for a pittance but there are no jobs in their own countries.
i would be interested in finding out what miranda rights arrested foreigners have. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 10:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| fancypants wrote: |
| ...i would be interested in finding out what Miranda rights arrested foreigners have. |
Carmen...? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 10:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| it is legal to do privates as long as you have written permission from your e2 sponsor and instruction takes place in a classroom. |
And, if I understand correctly, thee are at least two students. Seemingly one-on-one is always illegal, whether by foreigners or Koreans. This specific point is not an immigration issue. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 10:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| as for the "uneducated workers from poor countries" you are woefully mistaken. not to sound classist, but most of these workers are from the middle and upper classes and hold univeristy degrees. i know migrant workers who are ex-physics professors, english professors, teachers, engineers, not counting the others who hold bachelor's degrees and came here right after uni. they are working 3d jobs in factories for a pittance but there are no jobs in their own countries. |
Yeah, I know. Don't fall into the Korean trap and assume they are all nobodies.
Good post, fancy pants. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hope
Joined: 22 Nov 2003
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Does anyone know if the crackdown in Gangnam has resulted in any of the teachers being incarcerated? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Middle Land
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| OneWayTraffic wrote: |
| Floor two of immigration usually don't deal with English teachers. For every teacher there's 100 factory workers etc. Why speak English if you are dealing with uneducated Chinese and phillipinos etc? |
Last time I checked, the vast majority of Filipinos working in Korea spoke English. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fancypants
Joined: 22 May 2005
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| OneWayTraffic wrote: |
| Floor two of immigration usually don't deal with English teachers. For every teacher there's 100 factory workers etc. Why speak English if you are dealing with uneducated Chinese and phillipinos etc? |
yeah. what a maroon! the chinese were mapping the stars while his smelly barbarian forebears were running around naked with clubs somewhere in northern europe. any migrant worker could tell you that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
paperbag princess
Joined: 07 Mar 2004
Location: veggie hell
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
everytime someone claims that canadian tourist visas of 6 months are to blame i want to scream. korea it's been said a million times, korea and canada have a recipricol agreement. i'd have to guess that based on the fact that there are 15million more koreans, there are more koreans taking advantage of the long visa than the the canadians.
recruiters are dirty. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Pyongshin Sangja wrote: |
| Quote: |
| as for the "uneducated workers from poor countries" you are woefully mistaken. not to sound classist, but most of these workers are from the middle and upper classes and hold univeristy degrees. i know migrant workers who are ex-physics professors, english professors, teachers, engineers, not counting the others who hold bachelor's degrees and came here right after uni. they are working 3d jobs in factories for a pittance but there are no jobs in their own countries. |
Yeah, I know. Don't fall into the Korean trap and assume they are all nobodies.
Good post, fancy pants. |
I agree. I've met an Uzbek surgeon who was doing odd jobs at a warehouse (his salary here far surpassed what he would have earned in Uzbekistan). According to what I've seen, his Korean foreman was a jerk who loved bossing him and his co-workers around. He had them do some of the most unproductive tasks possible just so they kept busy.
I've also met this young man from Nepal who spoke English and Korean fluently. He had a masters degree in Economics but was working in a car parts factory because he was dreaming of opening, or rather planning to open, his own factory in Nepal someday. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
So...
any other news on this front? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fancypants
Joined: 22 May 2005
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| paperbag princess wrote: |
everytime someone claims that canadian tourist visas of 6 months are to blame i want to scream.
recruiters are dirty. |
people are blaming canadian's 6 month visas for the preponderance of teachers working on tourist visas? wow. crazy.
in order of influence, i would blame it on:
- korea's insistence on an unreasonable policy (re: e2 issuance) that makes esl teachers extremely vulnerable to all manner of abuse and exploitation, the most pernicious aspect being the "letter of release" (permission from their boss) required by teachers to quit their jobs, even if their boss is breaking the terms of their contract AND labour law. added to this would be the absence of any practical legal recourse/counselling in the event of abuse.
- a multitude of nightmarish stories circulating the globe related to the above from teachers that were locked into bonded slavery by their e2 for an entire hellish year, stipulated by the terms of their e2.
- the fact that, up until very recently, to verify the credentials of prospective teachers, korean immigration required the submitting of DEGREES rather than official university transcripts. a visit to ko san road in bangok will have you witness to about 100 street stalls selling very real looking degrees for $20 USD.
so in short, the essence of the problem is that it is a downright scary experience to sign a teaching contract here. when you sign that contract, you are essentially agreeing to indentured servitude, your wanjangnim has absolute control over practically every aspect of your life, and can screw you over with impunity FOR ONE WHOLE YEAR because he OWNS you and there's nothing you can do about it. granted, there are more happy stories than scary stories, but it's understandable that a lot of teachers don't want to take that risk.
i am pretty sure that a very sizeable number of "illegal" teachers are eligible for e2s but are scared off from getting one. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| fancypants wrote: |
| paperbag princess wrote: |
everytime someone claims that canadian tourist visas of 6 months are to blame i want to scream.
recruiters are dirty. |
people are blaming canadian's 6 month visas for the preponderance of teachers working on tourist visas? wow. crazy.
in order of influence, i would blame it on:
- korea's insistence on an unreasonable policy (re: e2 issuance) that makes esl teachers extremely vulnerable to all manner of abuse and exploitation, the most pernicious aspect being the "letter of release" (permission from their boss) required by teachers to quit their jobs, even if their boss is breaking the terms of their contract AND labour law. added to this would be the absence of any practical legal recourse/counselling in the event of abuse.
- a multitude of nightmarish stories circulating the globe related to the above from teachers that were locked into bonded slavery by their e2 for an entire hellish year, stipulated by the terms of their e2.
- the fact that, up until very recently, to verify the credentials of prospective teachers, korean immigration required the submitting of DEGREES rather than official university transcripts. a visit to ko san road in bangok will have you witness to about 100 street stalls selling very real looking degrees for $20 USD.
so in short, the essence of the problem is that it is a downright scary experience to sign a teaching contract here. when you sign that contract, you are essentially agreeing to indentured servitude, your wanjangnim has absolute control over practically every aspect of your life, and can screw you over with impunity FOR ONE WHOLE YEAR because he OWNS you and there's nothing you can do about it. granted, there are more happy stories than scary stories, but it's understandable that a lot of teachers don't want to take that risk.
i am pretty sure that a very sizeable number of "illegal" teachers are eligible for e2s but are scared off from getting one. |
The letter of release is often used as a pretext for teaching on a tourist visa, but in reality, if you file a complaint at the labor board, and it is found that your employer has broken the law, he or she can be forced to write a letter of release, or it will simply be waved by Immigration. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fancypants
Joined: 22 May 2005
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
when i tried to file a complaint at the labour board, i was told that they only deal with payment claims. that is, monetary. they do not deal with LOL issues. at least that has been my experience. we all know there is very little in the way of consistency re: queries to governmental agencies.
the foreign worker legal help centre, which works purely in the capacity of mediator, will advise you to a) be nicer to your boss and, if that fails, sue him from your home country in small claims court, again only for lost pay.
the only recourse is to complain to immigration if you have a LOL issue. but again, little or no consistency. typically, if you ask 5 different immigration officers for official advice you will get 5 different answers.
when i complained twice to immigration about my employer who threatened to deport me "forever" from korea after i quit because he was: witholding pay, breaking the terms of my contract (i was hired as a TOEIC instructor at his adult hogwan but upon my return from my visa run, i discovered that this "hagwon" had no students and i was subsequently pimped out to 4 elementary schools to teach hellish classes) i was advised again to be nicer to my boss to get my LOL and to collect recommendations from my students to submit to immigration in the event i ever wished to work in korea again after my forced exit.
this particular employer had at least 10 immigration complaints against him filed by previous burned teachers ranging from 2000 to 2004.(as an aside, earlier this year i heard that he had his license cancelled but it took immigration five long years to act and the cancellation was no consolation to the posse of teachers scattered around the planet whose lives he made a living hell.)
i think the track record shows that the majority of e2 visa holders who get ill treated by their bosses and try to find justice through governmental channels are, more often than not, burned. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fancypants
Joined: 22 May 2005
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
by the by, for those of you who are wondering why i am still in korea after my seemingly omnipotent gangster boss (it turned out he was really a gangster!) threatened to "deport me forever", i got my LOL after i agreed to comply with his requests: apologising to him in front of all his staff, saying that i was a bad person that tried to damage his reputation by lying about him. i also had to sign a letter (written in korean) saying that i lied about him and promising to retract my complaint about him at immigration. by signing, i also agreed that he had the power to "deport me forever" from korea if i ever said anything bad about him in the future.
i signed.
it was the most humiliating thing i ever had to do. but dignity was redeemed when his staff "audience" unanimously walked out of the meeting room in dissent during my "public apology". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
