Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Ryst Helmut]

To all,,

I'd like to know who has been employed at their university for more than five years consecutively. Could you state whether it is a private or public uni., as I'm coming to year 6 at mine, and curious about some legal issues.

There has been other posts regarding people being fired after completing their 5 year mark, taking deductions in pay, et cetera, but I'd like to hear first hand.

I've met some others who have completed similar lengths and are curious to what legal actions (regarding pay and perks) could be had.

Please, no justifiers stating 'we' don't deserve any semblance of tenure, this is not the issue...the degrees and experience are there.

I am curious to know what has happened at other schools, as my friend is suing his university, and this is proving rather interesting.


PM me if needed.

Shoosh,

Ryst

[kimcheeking]

[Ryst Helmut]

KCK,

I have received PMs, and will post all pertinent information. One reason I am asking is because a couple of us are contemplating a class action law-suit 'nation-wide.'

We are discussing pros-and-cons at this stage...just like to get as much input as possible before stepping into the ring...

Shoosh,

Ryst

[Trinny]

As for getting a lawyer and legal actions,

1. Canadian embassy (Dfait) website has a listing of the resources recommended to the westerners including lawyers, which will be able to tell you the information you need. I believe other embassy should also provide the list of lawyers who are the members of the chamber of commerce.

2. Ask to speak to a commercial officer/or consulate people at the embassy of your country. They should be able to recommend lawyers.

3. It is a little off topic: Korean legal system is not fair to a foreigner. My husband who dealt with a number of Korean companies' copy right infringement is very jaundice about Korean legal system. There was a case where a Korean company took S off "Roots (fashion brand)" and sold their "Root" brand. Canadian company Roots took the Korean "Root" to a Korean court for copyright infringement. The ruling from the Korean court is that "Root" is a different name from the "Roots", because there is no S in it and the word "roots" is in the public domain and therefore everybody can use it.

[dutchman]

I will be signing on for my fifth year this winter. I've heard about the five year problems too and asked my supervisor. She assured me that the university I'm at has no such policies.

[Gord]

[Ajarn Miguk]

Hi Khun Gord,

Are you a licensed attorney in South Korea? My attorney, who is licensed in South Korea, has advised me class action lawsuits are not permitted in South Korea. Should I believe you or him? Is he wrong? If so, may I direct him to you for clarification in this matter?

He did say, though, that an individual lawsuit regarding the tenure issue is possible and might prove successful. Do you have a differing opinion? What exactly is your legal background? Should I change attorneys? What are your rates?

Finally, is my avatar also too large? Your opinion, as always, is very important to me.

[Ryst Helmut]

Ok, I should have better explained what we are suggesting. Yes, we are aware about class-action law suits, hence the quotes...

We've met other teachers at other univs. in the same situation, and are considering going with the same legal firm to tackle the same issue. Not really a class action, but the firm(s) can kill several birds with one stone... yes/no?

I figured, yes figuring is a dangerous past-time, that if a national school was sued, and 'we' won equal rights, then this would set a precedent. So berate me, I beus ignant 'bout legal ishoos.

Shoosh,

Ryst

[Canadian Teacher]

I worked at my last uni for five years. After five years all faculty has to be offered a permanent position. That makes for a sticky legal situation in Korea because there is no permanent residence visa in Korea. They also have to start paying 100% of your pension. At my last uni, it was made clear they were not going to keep a waygook past five years.

A class action suit in Korea? You have got to be joking. First of all, there is no system of class actions in Korea. It was mentioned briefly by the Roh administration but soon died.

One of the recurring themes on this board is that lawyers work for free. Contrary to popluar belief, they do not. Further, Korea does not have a well developed system of tort law. Civil cases take years and cost a fortune in Korea and then you have to collect. We are not in Kansas, Toto.

If anyone can find any lawyer in the world who will take a civil action without contingency or a big fat retainer, please post his/her name and number. I am all ears.

Many years ago I got the shaft by a hagwan, illegally fired. I contacted some of the lawyers on the Canadian Embassy list. They, to a one, said this.

1. Retainer, W20m

2. It will take years.

3. A waygook is never going to win.

4. I will not take your case because you don't have the money.

5. Over a couple of million Won, forget it.

[weatherman]

I am on my 5th year at my university. Another teacher where I work was pushed out after 5 years, by being told that their was a 1% he would be rehired, so he ended resigning a bit early and took a new uni job. I guess that will be my fate as well, so I am planning a job search this fall. The admistration has seemed hopeful about my staying here in my conversations with them, but I think the axe will fall. I would like to stay, and work by contract as now, but I don't think it will happen, but I can hope.

[billbile]

quote:
"The ruling from the Korean court is that "Root" is a different name from the "Roots", because there is no S in it and the word "roots" is in the public domain and therefore everybody can use it."

Interesting! So one can start up companies that use names like 'Samsun', 'Samsun's', 'Daewooo', etc.

That will actually explain the pizza parlours in Korea with names like 'Pizza Hot' and the Donuts in distinctive pink boxes with that distinctive puffy lettering with the name 'Donald Donuts'.

[Ryst Helmut]

Canadian Teacher,

Ok, you've very valid points, but guys, please don't talk 'down' to me. I've well over the 2o million retainer....WELL over. If this were to be long and drawn out..no worries, I've loads of time.

If I won, an additional 2-3 million a month for the next 20 years...hmm, 20 million retainer is a drop in the bucket.

As for ' a waygook will never win.' Fair enough, but again, you've not the details of this situation. What's to say that I (or one contemplating) am not jae-mi kyopo, or the like? My colleague was Korean, now a naturalised US citizen, and BEST pals from college (and beyond) with our director and 'governing body' of our univ. He's approaching the 5 year mark, and will be in the same situation. If this rule is bent for him, it must be for us, as he is not Korean, but American.

Then again, I am frequently wrong in my assumptions.

As for another friend, he's completed 6 consecutive years (with no hassle, yet no bonuses) at his univ.

Shoosh,

Ryst

[Real Reality]

Foreigners have a VERY HARD (if not impossible) time getting tenure in Korea and other Asian countries. Here is something on Japan (perhaps, you can substitute the words Japan and Japanese for Korea and Korean):

Foreigners are usually hired by Japanese universities under contract. This is highly disadvantageous. If you sign a contract, your continued employment is at the whim of your employer. Do not do this.

The Japanese University system is for foreign faculty, more often than not, a racket. Your coming here will only enable the school to substitute a fired long-termer with a neophyte, and thus perpetuate the cycle. Your arrival, I'm sorry to say, will in fact weaken the bargaining position of those already here. For our sake as well as your own, I recommend you do not come.

http://www.eltnews.com/guides/universities/universities1_1.shtml

Nationality has been an issue for employment in Japanese universities because most foreign educators have effectively received part-time non-tenured status. Japan's university hires all part-time educators, regardless of nationality, under contract employment, but hires full-timers under a bifucated system--citizens mostly tenured, foreigners mostly contracted.

The result has been that tenure for foreigners has hardly ever been granted in the National or Public Universities, and very rarely in Private. In fact, despite being the second-largest university system in the OECD, Japan has the lowest number of tenured foreign educators--there are more tenured foreigners in one single major American university (George Washington U.) than in all of Japan's Nationals put together (Hall 1997, p. 100)! As for the system in tenure's staid, contracting may sound clear and secure ("renewable by mutual consent" is the legal requirement), but in practice consent has not always been mutual. In fact, full-time foreign educators in Japan have found their employment highly insecure precisely because of contracts, and for reasons bureaucratic, political, and economic. Bureaucratically, capping renewals (at two or so) is considered standard in many universities (Sapporo Gakuin University, Private, cf. University Blacklist 1998). Politically, nonrenewal has been an effective means for firing foreigners in times of dispute (Tsukuba University, National, cf Hall ibid, pp. 107-17). Economically, in the face of rising costs and diminishing student numbers, contracts have enabled Monbushou to enforce a tacit campaign between 1992-4 to replace elderly foreign educators with younger, cheaper foreigners in the National Universities (cf ibid, p. 81); Hokkaido University has become famous for its occasional "foreigner house cleanings" (cf. University Blacklist, 1998).

http://www.debito.org/univquestions.html

[Canadian Teacher]

[hellofaniceguy]

Just because it's never been done doesn't mean it can't. We all know how FUBAR the korean system is and how non koreans are treated. However, it only takes one judge with a positive ruling to set the wheels in motion. If you teach at a university, get in tight with the law school professors and the top students for future use. Make connections now. The system WILL change in korea; how long before it changes is another story. But unless someone starts rocking the boat, it'll never happen.