Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Gopher]

deleted

[Imbroglio]

[The Bobster]

[Ya-ta Boy]

Your question is only about the domestic consequences, right?

I think the situation is very different this time around. The decade of the 60's started out with the country united. The divisions started with the War and were intensified by the social revolutions that came along at the same time. (Sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll and women's lib). The decade of the '00's (sounds funny, doesn't it?) started out with the country already divided, with one short period of unity in year after 9/11. On top of that, the liberals have been stuck with the reputation of being unpatriotic since Vietnam. To make matters worse, Rove demonstrated last week that patriotism = belligerence in the real definition of the word: the willingness to go to war. So the lines have been drawn for 30 years and the Right is harboring a grudge from the days of Vietnam. I think the results this time will be much different.

Tuesday night, Bush will speak to the nation. Everyone expects him to ask for time and patience. The happy talk from Cheyney will stop. The public will listen. They did when LBJ and Nixon asked in their day. The American public wants to believe its leaders, same as everyone else. So unless Bush chokes on another pretzel and falls off the podium, he will get some breathing space. About a year, or until some big disaster strikes in Iraq, whichever comes first.

The crunch comes next summer, with the off-year elections coming in November. Bush will have to be able to show significant progress by then, or the doo-doo will hit the fan.

So let's say it's now summer '06. There are demonstrations in the streets. There are Congressional hearings on various scandals in the administration's administration of the War. Republicans are way down in the polls, the same as now or even lower because of another thousand or so dead soldiers. Pressure to withdraw has hit a peak. What will happen?

Bush will declare an emergency: terrorists abroad and subversion within. The National Guard will be nationalized and called out to keep peace in the streets--the governors will be neutralized and disarmed. There will be a purge of Congress. Senators and Representatives will be dragged from their beds and jailed in Gitmo, or just disappeared. Voter registration rolls will be purged and only patriots will be allowed to vote for patriot candidates in November.

Remember, you read it here first.

[Gopher]

Ya-ta: Are you talking about a coup?

My question wasn't limited to foreign or domestic spheres. Just hypothesizing what might the consequences be should Washington be forced to withdraw from the region.

The consequences in the Mid-East, particularly Iraq, perhaps in Saudi, would likely be severe, for example.

[Ya-ta Boy]

In a word, yes.

[Wangja]

Nah, i reckon he means coup consolidation.

[Mr. Literal]

[Wangja]

[Ya-ta Boy]

Note: I did say 'choke', not die. But if he did then here is the order of succession:

The Vice President Richard Cheney
Speaker of the House John Dennis Hastert
President pro tempore of the Senate1 Ted Stevens
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice
Secretary of the Treasury John Snow
Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld
Attorney General Alberto Gonzales
Secretary of the Interior Gale A. Norton
Secretary of Agriculture Mike Johanns
Secretary of Commerce Carlos Gutierrez2
Secretary of Labor Elaine Chao3
Secretary of Health and Human Services Mike Leavitt
Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Alphonso Jackson
Secretary of Transportation Norman Yoshio Mineta
Secretary of Energy Samuel Bodman
Secretary of Education Margaret Spellings
Secretary of Veterans Affairs Jim Nicholson
Secretary of Homeland Security4 Michael Chertoff

NOTE: An official cannot succeed to the Presidency unless that person meets the Constitutional requirements.
1. The president pro tempore presides over the Senate when the vice president is absent. By tradition the position is held by the senior member of the majority party.
2. Carlos Gutierrez was born in Cuba and is ineligible.
3. Elaine Chao was born in Taiwan and is ineligible.
4. May move to number 8 on the list pending legislation.


I don't know a thing about Stevens of Alaska or most of the others on the list. The ones I do know, I don't like and don't think would be any improvement.

[Ya-ta Boy]

gopher,

I don't know how old you are so I don't know if you were around for the last US withdrawal. It tore the country apart. A couple of years ago I read some article that mentioned the country hasn't been so divided since the run-up to the Civil War. That comment really hit me. I've been thinking about it ever since. I've been out of the country for a decade so I was struck a few weeks ago when one of my former students said the atmosphere in her office was flat-out hostile during the campaign last year.

The right wing seems to believe that the Constitution is dispensable. They've shown twice in recent weeks that they don't believe in separation of powers (Terri Schiavo) or Senate rules (nuclear option). I can only conclude that they will do anything to hold onto power. There is some suspicion that they played around with computer voting results.

I am far more concerned with what will happen here than what the consequences of withdrawal would be in Iraq.

[Gopher]

[deleted]

[Imbroglio]

Bush: "We Will Stay in the Fight Until the Fight is Won"

[Gopher]

[deleted]

[desultude]