Korean Job Discussion Forums

[mount real]

I teach mostly uni and adult students this year, and it seems that 90% of the time when they go to study abroad, the only possible answer will be Vancouver (or the burbs)....I know it's the closest place in Canada and all, but most people end up going to a hagwon, going to the Korean market and complaining to their other friends about the lower quality of kimchi-jjigae....I have done research myself for these students in my own free time in some effort to get them to try something different, be it Calgary, Toronto, Winnipeg, Halifax, whatever, just get out of the Korean ghetto!!!!!!!!!! Students who are on summer vacation here and come to my class tell me of living there for 3 years and not making a single non-Korean friend, and speaking exclusively Korean outside their hagwon (outdoor signs in Korean too).....What is the point of this?????? Why waste your cash like that, and I guess especially, why won't they give my other options simply a try? I even found home-stays for them.....and no I'm not from Vancouver....seems they are wasting time and money..........why the fear of the unknown??? A--ee-shi

[mullethunter]

i'm actually from vancouver island, and have friends and family in van, so i go there a fair bit. i tell my students that if they want to learn english, DO NOT go to vancouver, for the exact reason you mentioned. i tell my students to go to a small(ish) town to really learn english, and also about canadian culture.
for god's sake, there's even a shinpo mando place in vancouver!

[Moldy Rutabaga]

I too have had many younger students tell me that they went to Vancouver to attend an English program and came back with worse English skills, mainly because they had all the pleasures of home (Korean friends, movies, food, culture, media) and no parents nattering at them to study. For some, it must be paradise. And the parents are rid of the kids for a few months and can tell their friends about the expensive Canadian English program.

Why Vancouver? It has a pleasant (albeit rainy) climate, it's close, it's in Canadian dollars, and visas are easier to obtain. I'd pick one of the NZ programs, but that's me.

One of my older students sent his grandson to study in northern Ontario, deliberately to get him away from other Koreans. Not as much fun, but he probably learned a lot more.

Ken:>

[numazawa]

Well... I taught ESL in downtown Toronto for a few months, and I must say I can't recall a single Korean/Japanese student who professed to me a preference for another city over Vancouver. Can't say I blame them, really. It's a fine place to live. Still, Vancouverites on average are not the chummiest sorts you're apt to encounter. Plus they're more than familiar with Asian faces; familiar to a fault, in some cases maybe, so that visiting Koreans would have little of the "curiosity" factor to bank on there.

But yeah, I laugh when I pull up the image in my mind of a little hole-in-the-wall joint I came across in Kerrisdale, far from the locus of Korearama in Vancouver. A sort of combo coffeeshop/minimart/PCbang/infocenter that looked like it'd been airdropped in a crate and set up the previous weekend -- and packed to the hilt with young Koreans. I was tempted to come back in the late evening to see if they'd lay out a porta-platform on the sidewalk and offer me some soju.

[Draven]

Although many of these Korean students will tell you that they're going abroad to study, I'd venture the reality is they're going abroad to party for as long as the money lasts. If they can pick up some language skills while they're there, well that's just a bonus. Given that it's possibly the first time they've had some real freedom, I guess it's understandable. We had one of my wife's friends stay with us for 9 months when we were back home in Vancouver and her life was one non-stop Korean party, with the odd English class thrown in when she wasn't too hungover.

[keninseoul]

met several K's who told me, when studying abroad, they would only hang with other K's and speak Korean - - no surprise they never learned much - they only "practised" in the classrom.

Reminds me of my sister (in a fashion), who vacations in exotic spots, but hunkers down in a 5 star resort/hotel - never experiences the local culture - just the longitude and latitude changed.

[Chillin' Villain]

I dunno, I think it sorta depends on the person... I know that's sort of a wishy-washy answer, but I've gots anecdotes, too!

One of my best friends did the ESL thing in Vancouver last year... She also attended some design school there for 6 months or so (just dropped right into 100% English design classes with no previous experience)... Her friends from that time- from both design class AND the ESL class- were all foreign- whether Canadian, Japanese, Mexican, European, or whatever. It's not like she tried to stay away from other Koreans or anything, she just has the kind of personality where she's pretty comfortable around people from different cultures, I guess.

At the same time, I did private tutoring for a Korean ���л� in the significantly-less cosmopolitan city known as Edmonton. Maybe 3 or 4 Korean restaurants in the whole freakin' city, and a considerably smaller K-population to cling to, right? Yeah, well he found 'em, and he clung to 'em, despite WAAAAY more opportunities for immersion, in my humble opinion. Of course, he could have just been frightened by all the backwater, pickup truck drivin', West Ed Mall dwelling assclowns that populate Alberta's capital city.... Who knows?

Whatever the case may be, I DID certainly think before that Vancouver was sort of a cheat as far as overseas studying is concerned, but there are certainly many cases that prove otherwise.

[Moldy Rutabaga]

[thorin]

It's because the weather in Vancouver is so much nicer than in Hawaii.

[ed4444]

I used to say to students that going to Vancouver was a bad idea because of the reasons outlined above.

I am now in a city with almost no Koreans and when the students come here it just means they spend all their time with the one other Korean person they find in their school instead of mixing. It is not much of an improvement to be honest.

The us and them mentality that is cultivated in Korea is so hard for most of them to overcome. The rare individuals that do manage to break out and make friends with non-Koreans are really to be admired.

[hellofaniceguy]

If anyone is SERIOUS about learning a foreign language...they would NOT be living in or around "their" area/town. Most koreans are NOT serious about learning English..it is obvious by the lack of English language skills displayed day in and day out by koreans, obvious by the parents who also studied English and still lack common English speaking skills and it's really obvious by the thousands of KT's in the public school system who teach English and can't hold a decent conversation! Even the Ministry of Education went on to say a few weeks back (article was published in the KH) that most of the KT's failed the English language test! But the Ministry went on to say...in essence...no big deal! Serious about learning a language? I think not.

[canadian_in_korea]

I agree that it depends on the person and how serious they are about learning English. My husband told me that when he was studying in Canada he went out of his way to avoid Korean people, for the very reasons mentioned here....if he wanted to learn how to speak English why would he speak korean most of the time he was in Canada. I do think that maybe the reason Korean people search out others is that they have a very difficult time adjusting to a different society and its rules...perhaps its difficult perhaps they just don't want to try, I'm not sure. I would say that the majority of 'foreigners' in korea do try their best to at least understand korean culture, it makes life there much easier.

[Ya-ta Boy]

I think the basic problem is that Koreans are told they NEED English to be successful. That is only true of some people. Most people don't need it very much. They will work in a Korean company in a Korean city and watch Korean TV/movies and have Korean friends.

As a result, Koreans are forced into studying something they have no particular interest in. Maybe something like English-speaking Canadians studying French. For many, it's more of a chore than a real interest.

[sundubuman]

why don't they just go to Iowa.....or Nebraska....South Dakota....Missouri...

?????


Questions that won't be answered......

[ed4444]

They would definitely come back from those states with a better grasp of real american culture.

I still don't think I would recommend it though. They might come back with good english along with mullets and shotguns.