|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
|
 Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:41 pm Post subject: Why I'd Never Send My Kids to an English Hogwon... |
 |
|
Totally corrupt industry. It's all about squeezing profits from so many angles.
Right now, sitting right next to me, is an English book salesman. Speaks not a word of English. Selling English books to my hogown director, herself a non-college educated "teacher" who speaks very, very little English. The useless 19-year-old Korean girl "teacher" is also here, hovering about the conversation, putting her arms on her hips to add authority to the decision on these books, but she can't really know because she, too, speaks almost no English.
So many people have their hands in the cookie jar in the English industry here. It's not about foreign language acquisition at all from where I stand, in my babysitting job. How the hell did I arrive to be at this place.
The kids are running around the "school" in packs right now, supposed to be a ten-minute break between classes. Slamming hard into walls and doors, screaming at each other, and the director is getting annoyed that I'm not out there minding them while she holds her "business" meeting.
And Ricky just knocked the hell out of Joy (a boy who corrupted the name "Joey" and won't change his name even though I explain that "Joy" is a girl's name). |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ed4444
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| The main reason I wouldn't send my kids to an English Hagwon is because they should be able to speak it natively given their nationality. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hellofaniceguy
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: On your computer screen!
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
If koreans were really serious about learning English...the entire country would already be speaking English after all these years of learning!!
Current students parents' also went to hakwons to learn English and most can't hold a decent conversation! Same with the majority of KT's who are teaching English! They are f&*%$&@ jokes!!!
The majority in the public school as also jokes!
Anyway...most ESL teachers already know...it's not an ESL teaching job...it's a baby sitting service made to look like a language institution. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
deessell
Joined: 08 Jun 2005
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
In defence of Koreans and them learning English, I must say that they don't really get a chance to use the English that they learn. There are no tourists and few Koreans travel.
On the other side of the coin it also amazes me how my High School students can "study" English for 5 hours a week and still not be able to reproduce any other than "nice to meet you" every time I see them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
buddy bradley
Joined: 24 Aug 2003
Location: The Beyond
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 1:44 am Post subject: Re: Why I'd Never Send My Kids to an English Hogwon... |
|
|
| Gopher wrote: |
| Totally corrupt industry. It's all about squeezing profits from so many angles. |
No, your crappy hagwon is corrupt. Don't paint us all with the same brush, pal, you clearly haven't seen what I've seen here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 1:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| deessell wrote: |
In defence of Koreans and them learning English, I must say that they don't really get a chance to use the English that they learn. There are no tourists and few Koreans travel.
On the other side of the coin it also amazes me how my High School students can "study" English for 5 hours a week and still not be able to reproduce any other than "nice to meet you" every time I see them. |
In defence of common sense, there are English websites, books of all levels, films, TV, audio-learning aids, music, and all sorts of things they all have access to if they want to learn English. Do they use them? 99% don't, because it's not Korean. Millions of them do travel, some for very long periods, and most draw like magnets to any other Koreans they find. A KT I used to work with only started learning English in her early 20s. She was forever checking out English things - books, TV, etc. She lived abroad in environments where there were hardly any Koreans. And guess what? She's one of the most fluent Koreans I know.
It's a cultural problem and one that won't go away.
As for the OPs original post, I'd be afraid to send my kids to English hogwan because of the bad influences they might fall under if they get put in the wrong class. Whenever I meet Koreans I tell them never to believe a thing a hogwan director says and to drop by their kids' hogwan unexpectedly to observe whenever possible. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Homer
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| No, your crappy hagwon is corrupt. Don't paint us all with the same brush, pal, you clearly haven't seen what I've seen here. |
Good god...I agree with Buddy here!
Gopher...please stick to your situation and don't sweep every hakwon in your waste basket of crap calling. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
I_Am_Wrong
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: whatever
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| hellofaniceguy wrote: |
Current students parents' also went to hakwons to learn English and most can't hold a decent conversation! Same with the majority of KT's who are teaching English! They are f&*%$&@ jokes!!!
|
Where are you getting this from? Have you talked to any parents? I've talked to lots of parents from my Public School (those that speak English). Most don't speak perfect English but they can communicate decently and ask me for help and ideas about helping their child's English education at home.
Do you have any Korean friends? I have Korean friends who are parents and speak English and they didn't attend hogwans as children. In fact, I've been told quite the opposite of what you claim: It wasn't common for them to study English at a hagwon. The people that started studying English at Hagwons are currently in University or just past University and tend to speak quite decent English. From what I've been told, the fad of having most kids at English hagwons is a recent phenomena that started in the 1990's |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
denverdeath
Joined: 21 May 2005
Location: Boo-sahn
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
| If the kids don't go to hakwons, they have nowhere else to go. All of their friends go there and mom and dad are working. Some of the schools are zoos, while others are not. If they're being taught something and use it occasionally, I think it's better than nothing. Also, if they smile sometimes and have some fun, I think that's pretty good too. The high school students who "learn/study" English five hours a day are probably doing so in an ineffective way if they're not improving at all. Knowing some vocabulary and grammar rules/terms may get them to pass a test but it does not equal fluency. On a positive note, some of my middle school students are not too bad. It's not like they are able to carry on a really deep and meaningful conversation, but they're doing okay. Most of them are either too busy or too tired because they have too many things on their plate each day. My group of middle school teachers are pretty good, too. Again, it's not like they're fluent or anything, but they're pretty good and all but one has never been outside of Korea. The one who was outside of Korea was in America for only two months. Yes, she is the best of the four. She can usually hold her own in most situations. For example, I put her on the spot today to see how well she could react. I was doing an appointment activity which emphasized what, where, and when. I started off with, "My girlfriend and I went to the park on 1st street on Thursday at 12 noon to do some kissing," and the students had to circle the appropriate answers. I asked the KT to do the next one. Although she struggled a bit, within five seconds she came up with, "I saw my husband walking arm-in-arm with another girl on King Street today at 2 in the afternoon and when he gets home, I'm going to kill him!" I was impressed. She's pretty slick. When I asked her to do another one, she said, "Hey! Why don't you and I beat up Joo-mi on School Street after school on Friday?" There have been a few incidents of violence at our school recently... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Homer wrote: |
| please stick to your situation and don't sweep every hakwon in your waste basket of crap calling. |
The overwhelming majority of the Koreans with whom I've come into contact over the last seven months never internalized the auxiliary verbs do/does/don't/doesn't and they make a big "x" sign with their arms when they want to say "no" to something.
Considering so many years so many Koreans spend in hogwons, this is hardly a testament to hogwon efficacy in foreign language acquisition...
On the other hand, the only positive, comparative thing I can imagine is that Koreans in general have at least internalized English characters much more than Americans have internalized Chinese, Japaenese, or Korean characters, which is, of course, practically nil. They also have a few phrases internalized: one more time; have a nice meal; etc.
But if you parachuted the typical hogwon trainee into Chicago or Glasgow and told him or her that if they didn't call the police and explain who and where they were, and ask for help in five minutes you were going to kill them, they would be unable to save their own lives. I don't think I'm going off on a limb saying this, either, and whether it offends you or not is irrelevant, although I regret it if it does. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| deessell wrote: |
| they don't really get a chance to use the English that they learn. |
And judging by all the television shows on EFL learning, and the few Korean teachers I've observed (five), they don't speak too much English in their classes either. And almost everything is taught to them in translation. Goes against everything I've ever learned about foreign language acquisition. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
What's up Gopher!
I must say that you are right about the "KT's teach in Korean and it is dependant upon traslation". I will say this; that is what we are here for. To suppliment what is being taught to them in Korean. We (the foreigners) show them how it is used. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
I_Am_Wrong
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: whatever
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| do you study korean? Do it without translation...please. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
They teach Korean to us in translation because they don't know any better.
Anyone who thinks it's OK to teach foreign languages in translation -- esp. beyond the first or second semester -- is going against contemporary foreign language acquisition methodology (or ignorant of it).
Go to Monterey, say what you just said to me, and watch them laugh at you... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
deessell
Joined: 08 Jun 2005
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| deessell wrote: |
In defence of Koreans and them learning English, I must say that they don't really get a chance to use the English that they learn. There are no tourists and few Koreans travel.
On the other side of the coin it also amazes me how my High School students can "study" English for 5 hours a week and still not be able to reproduce any other than "nice to meet you" every time I see them. |
In defence of common sense, there are English websites, books of all levels, films, TV, audio-learning aids, music, and all sorts of things they all have access to if they want to learn English. Do they use them? 99% don't, because it's not Korean. Millions of them do travel, some for very long periods, and most draw like magnets to any other Koreans they find. A KT I used to work with only started learning English in her early 20s. She was forever checking out English things - books, TV, etc. She lived abroad in environments where there were hardly any Koreans. And guess what? She's one of the most fluent Koreans I know.
It's a cultural problem and one that won't go away.
As for the OPs original post, I'd be afraid to send my kids to English hogwan because of the bad influences they might fall under if they get put in the wrong class. Whenever I meet Koreans I tell them never to believe a thing a hogwan director says and to drop by their kids' hogwan unexpectedly to observe whenever possible. |
You are missing my point. Yes they are probably quite good at reading but their ability to reproduce and communicate the language is low. I stand by my opinion that they have few opportunities to use the language in a functional and communicative context due to the fact that there are few tourists here and not many expats.
You yourself admit that the KT had been in an English speaking country and had the opportunity to use her English. I have taught English in countries that have greater numbers of expats and lots of tourists and the skills are generally higher. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
