Korean Job Discussion Forums

[desultude]

Got this off Yahoo.

They had all week to "remember" this. Or create it. So, do Rove and Novak now cover each other's butt? Want to bet they both get off, while the real journalist rots in jail? This is really really despicable.

[funplanet]

the possibility exists that she was turned by Aldrich Ames back in '94 and has spent the last 10 years at a desk job at Langley...

if that is true, then according to the legal guidelines, Rove did not expose a covert agent....the guidelines state that a covert agent is one who has been undercover (covert) within the past 5 years...

anything, he's guilty of stupidity but not of breaking that particular law...possibly...even the special prosecutor is saying that Rove is not under any investigation

and why is the NY Times not spilling the beans concerning Judith Miller's notes...who is she, or the NYT, protecting while she sits in prison???? that is where the real story lies, not with carl rove....

[Ya-ta Boy]

Unlike funplanet, I think the story really is about Karl Rove and how the GOP manipulated media to help sell the party line that war was necessary. For the first time in 4 years the media isn't letting the administration change the subject from the story to destroying the credibility of the source.

Here is a piece from the NYT that's interesting:

Karl Rove's America
By PAUL KRUGMAN
John Gibson of Fox News says that Karl Rove should be given a medal. I agree: Mr. Rove should receive a medal from the American Political Science Association for his pioneering discoveries about modern American politics. The medal can, if necessary, be delivered to his prison cell.

What Mr. Rove understood, long before the rest of us, is that we're not living in the America of the past, where even partisans sometimes changed their views when faced with the facts. Instead, we're living in a country in which there is no longer such a thing as nonpolitical truth. In particular, there are now few, if any, limits to what conservative politicians can get away with: the faithful will follow the twists and turns of the party line with a loyalty that would have pleased the Comintern.

I first realized that we were living in Karl Rove's America during the 2000 presidential campaign, when George W. Bush began saying things about Social Security privatization and tax cuts that were simply false. At first, I thought the Bush campaign was making a big mistake - that these blatant falsehoods would be condemned by prominent Republican politicians and Republican economists, especially those who had spent years building reputations as advocates of fiscal responsibility. In fact, with hardly any exceptions they lined up to praise Mr. Bush's proposals.

But the real demonstration that Mr. Rove understands American politics better than any pundit came after 9/11.

Every time I read a lament for the post-9/11 era of national unity, I wonder what people are talking about. On the issues I was watching, the Republicans' exploitation of the atrocity began while ground zero was still smoldering.

Mr. Rove has been much criticized for saying that liberals responded to the attack by wanting to offer the terrorists therapy - but what he said about conservatives, that they "saw the savagery of 9/11 and the attacks and prepared for war," is equally false. What many of them actually saw was a domestic political opportunity - and none more so than Mr. Rove.

A less insightful political strategist might have hesitated right after 9/11 before using it to cast the Democrats as weak on national security. After all, there were no facts to support that accusation.

But Mr. Rove understood that the facts were irrelevant. For one thing, he knew he could count on the administration's supporters to obediently accept a changing story line. Read the before-and-after columns by pro-administration pundits about Iraq: before the war they castigated the C.I.A. for understating the threat posed by Saddam's W.M.D.; after the war they castigated the C.I.A. for exaggerating the very same threat.

Mr. Rove also understands, better than anyone else in American politics, the power of smear tactics. Attacks on someone who contradicts the official line don't have to be true, or even plausible, to undermine that person's effectiveness. All they have to do is get a lot of media play, and they'll create the sense that there must be something wrong with the guy.

And now we know just how far he was willing to go with these smear tactics: as part of the effort to discredit Joseph Wilson IV, Mr. Rove leaked the fact that Mr. Wilson's wife worked for the C.I.A. I don't know whether Mr. Rove can be convicted of a crime, but there's no question that he damaged national security for partisan advantage. If a Democrat had done that, Republicans would call it treason.

But what we're getting, instead, is yet another impressive demonstration that these days, truth is political. One after another, prominent Republicans and conservative pundits have declared their allegiance to the party line. They haven't just gone along with the diversionary tactics, like the irrelevant questions about whether Mr. Rove used Valerie Wilson's name in identifying her (Robert Novak later identified her by her maiden name, Valerie Plame), or the false, easily refuted claim that Mr. Wilson lied about who sent him to Niger. They're now a chorus, praising Mr. Rove as a patriotic whistle-blower.

Ultimately, this isn't just about Mr. Rove. It's also about Mr. Bush, who has always known that his trusted political adviser - a disciple of the late Lee Atwater, whose smear tactics helped President Bush's father win the 1988 election - is a thug, and obviously made no attempt to find out if he was the leaker.

Most of all, it's about what has happened to America. How did our political system get to this point?

*********

I especially liked the high-lighted part. It has been remarkable, even awesome, to watch conservatives accept the changes in the 'reasons' for the war with a snap of Dubya's fingers. Even Howdy Doody didn't respond to the pulled strings as fast as they have done.

[Bulsajo]

The latest on Rove- Dick Morris backs Rove. Dick worked for Clinton before he was fired. Make of that what you will. Here's the story, but it struck me that it reads more like a gossip column than anything else.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/14/AR2005071402115.html

[Bulsajo]

A good article which explains why Rove won't be charged with violating the Identities Protection Act and why he should be brought up on other charges:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/07/15/dean.rove/

[sundubuman]

Okay,

Joo, kudos to you for trying to educate the rabid idiotarians.

The REAL scandal here is that Plame helped her husband, an ex Clinton-official, get a politically explosive position (an 8-day trip to Niger) which ended up with the debut of his pre-scripted conclusions plastered in the most visually powerful opinion-making piece of paper in the Leftist Universe (the NYT op-ed pages). His nepotistic "conclusions"????.....Bush is bad.

Then Mr. Wilson goes on to join the Kerry campaign, fully expecting future appointage.



So, we have a married couple, actively helping their partner get vital jobs within the inner sanctum of American governance....with decidedly (Wilson's website was actually hosted by the Kerry campaign!!!) political leanings....... sounds downright Clintonesque don't it?


and the fact that this has come to the public's knowledge results in......an apoplectic left-wing Bush-hatred syndrome of "let's get Karl Rove fired" mania.......while the left purports to be worried about the CIA?!?!?!!!!


It's friggin hysterical.

And if the Dems had any sense, they'd be running away from this story as quick as their legs could take them........but their blind hatred of Republicans and Bush are leading them down that primrose path...they smell blood......but it's their own blood they are smelling. Hysterical.


This will be fun to watch......

[Bulsajo]

[sundubuman]

Dude, his wife helped him get the gig....!!!....AND he fully expected that Kerry would win, he would move up the East Coast/Washington food chain....and anything he did or didn't learn in Niger would never be an issue.

Otherwise, why did he campaign so hard for Kerry?????

He is a poltical hack who deserves the upcoming public lynching he truly deserved last year, when his website was being hosted by the Kerry campaign.

I repeat, this will be fun to watch.

[sundubuman]

Joe Wilson still with Kerry Campaign

According to the New York Post, Joe Wilson, the amateur "CIA operative" and vocal Bush basher who's Saddam-never-sought-yellow-cake-uranium-in-Niger story was completely discredited by the 9-11 commission report and the British government's Butler report, is still a Kerry advisor.

New York Post
July 29, 2004 -- DEMOCRAT John Kerry's campaign yesterday gave a ringing endorsement to Bush-bashing Ambassador Joe Wilson — even though a bipartisan Senate committee just found so many holes in his story that even his own wife won't back it up.

Wilson claimed President Bush lied about whether Saddam Hussein was seeking yellowcake uranium from Niger, and Wilson knew it because the CIA sent him there. The Senate report says, if anything, the truth is the opposite of what Wilson claimed.

But that doesn't seems to bother the Kerryites, who yesterday hailed Wilson's "integrity" and said he's still very much a part of the team that Kerry hopes will make him commander in chief. "Joe Wilson has served for many months as an informal adviser to the Kerry campaign and continues to do so," said Kerry foreign policy adviser Susan Rice.

[sundubuman]

more from the man so upset that the woman who secured him a nepotistic CIA gig...was "outed" by ???someone....thankfully

Spouse of outed CIA officer signs on with Kerry


By Joseph Curl
THE WASHINGTON TIMES


Joseph C. Wilson, a former Clinton appointee whose unsubstantiated charge that senior White House officials leaked the identity of his CIA officer wife and prompted a grand jury probe, has taken a prominent role in the presidential campaign of Sen. John Kerry.
The career diplomat and senior director for Africa policy for the National Security Council during the Clinton administration has campaigned for the Democratic presidential front-runner in at least six states. Mr. Wilson has also been offering the Massachusetts candidate speechwriting tips.
A two-day visit to Seattle last week, just a day before the state's Democratic caucuses, illustrates the role Mr. Wilson will play as the Kerry campaign ramps up.
"We went to war under false pretenses and that is becoming abundantly clear to the American people," he told hundreds of students during a foreign policy forum at the University of Washington. "I don't care who you vote for, but get out there and caucus. Don't leave it to the neoconservatives and evangelical Christians," Mr. Wilson said.
Mr. Kerry's press secretary defended the inclusion of Mr. Wilson in the campaign.
"I think his support speaks volumes about this administration's blustering foreign policy as well as about the breach of trust they've had with the American people," David Wade said.
Mr. Wilson did not return phone calls, but an agent for him said he is not talking to the press because he has a new book coming out in May titled "The Politics of Truth."
Most Republicans would not comment for attribution. But one said the use of Mr. Wilson — especially with an ongoing federal investigation over the leak of his wife's name — shows the kind of politics the Kerry camp will employ during the presidential campaign.
"With his political agenda so obvious, it calls into question his motives for the leak story last summer," said a top Republican. "He's a political animal and he's using all of the tools at his disposal to reach his political objective."
Said Charlie Black, a former Reagan adviser and a Republican strategist, "Wilson became a celebrity because of all this and probably has political value to the Kerry people in terms of helping them attract Democratic votes and fire up the base."
Mr. Wilson endorsed Mr. Kerry last fall, when the senator's campaign was flagging, but has recently made campaign appearances for him in Iowa, New Hampshire, Maine, New York, Massachusetts and Washington state. Mr. Kerry has won four of those states and is expected to win the other two when primaries are held there later this year.
Since signing onto the Kerry campaign, Mr. Wilson has joined forces with Win Without War, an antiwar group that charges President Bush misled Americans about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction capabilities. The group has collaborated with moveon.org, a liberal group that took out a full-page ad in the New York Times that ended with the words: "It would be a tragedy if young men and women were sent to die for a lie."
Addressing Kerry supporters in an Iowa rally in December, Mr. Wilson called Vice President Dick Cheney a "lying son of a bitch" for what he said was indifference to his report that intelligence on a Niger-Iraq uranium connection referenced by Mr. Bush in his 2003 State of the Union address was erroneous.
Mr. Wilson said he can label the incumbent president a "liar."
"I think I can call these guys in the White House liars a little more easily than John can, and talk about the people around the president much more directly — name names and say they ought to be fired," he said in NoMr. Wilson, who also served as acting ambassador in Baghdad under the administration of Mr. Bush's father, has donated $2,000 to the Kerry campaign, and in 2000, supported former Vice President Al Gore, whom he also gave $2,000. He has also contributed $2,000 to Democrats Sen. Edward M. Kennedy vember.
of Massachusetts and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York.
Mr. Wilson ignited a firestorm last year when he accused Mr. Bush of manipulating intelligence to win support for the U.S. invasion of Iraq. Mr. Wilson had been dispatched to Niger by Mr. Cheney in February 2002 to check out intelligence reports that the African nation sold uranium to Iraq, but said he found it "highly doubtful that any such transaction had ever taken place."
More than nine months after Mr. Bush said in his State of the Union address that British intelligence had uncovered that Iraq "recently sought significant amounts of uranium from Africa" — the infamous "16 words" — Mr. Wilson wrote an article published in the New York Times in which he said "some of the intelligence related to Iraq's nuclear weapons program was twisted to exaggerate the Iraqi threat."
In May 2003, after his mission to Niger but before his July 6, 2003, Times op-ed piece, Mr. Wilson began working for Mr. Kerry as an unpaid adviser, offering foreign policy advice and speechwriting tips.
A week after the Times piece ran, a conservative columnist wrote on July 14 that White House officials had leaked the name of Mr. Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, as retribution. Rumors swirled that the administration was striking out at Mr. Wilson through his wife, who originally proposed him for the Niger mission.
Mr. Wilson originally said reporters told him that White House political adviser Karl Rove told them his wife was "fair game," a statement he later retracted.
In September, Mr. Kerry — who is making prewar intelligence a prime campaign issue — said the disclosure of Mrs. Plame's name "is more than another example of politics driving the Bush administration. ... A special counsel should be appointed immediately so that we can find out how George Bush let this happen and hold those responsible accountable."

[sundubuman]

and one more, just to get some of you frothing

Spouse of outed CIA officer signs on with Kerry


By Joseph Curl
THE WASHINGTON TIMES


Joseph C. Wilson, a former Clinton appointee whose unsubstantiated charge that senior White House officials leaked the identity of his CIA officer wife and prompted a grand jury probe, has taken a prominent role in the presidential campaign of Sen. John Kerry.
The career diplomat and senior director for Africa policy for the National Security Council during the Clinton administration has campaigned for the Democratic presidential front-runner in at least six states. Mr. Wilson has also been offering the Massachusetts candidate speechwriting tips.
A two-day visit to Seattle last week, just a day before the state's Democratic caucuses, illustrates the role Mr. Wilson will play as the Kerry campaign ramps up.
"We went to war under false pretenses and that is becoming abundantly clear to the American people," he told hundreds of students during a foreign policy forum at the University of Washington. "I don't care who you vote for, but get out there and caucus. Don't leave it to the neoconservatives and evangelical Christians," Mr. Wilson said.
Mr. Kerry's press secretary defended the inclusion of Mr. Wilson in the campaign.
"I think his support speaks volumes about this administration's blustering foreign policy as well as about the breach of trust they've had with the American people," David Wade said.
Mr. Wilson did not return phone calls, but an agent for him said he is not talking to the press because he has a new book coming out in May titled "The Politics of Truth."
Most Republicans would not comment for attribution. But one said the use of Mr. Wilson — especially with an ongoing federal investigation over the leak of his wife's name — shows the kind of politics the Kerry camp will employ during the presidential campaign.
"With his political agenda so obvious, it calls into question his motives for the leak story last summer," said a top Republican. "He's a political animal and he's using all of the tools at his disposal to reach his political objective."
Said Charlie Black, a former Reagan adviser and a Republican strategist, "Wilson became a celebrity because of all this and probably has political value to the Kerry people in terms of helping them attract Democratic votes and fire up the base."
Mr. Wilson endorsed Mr. Kerry last fall, when the senator's campaign was flagging, but has recently made campaign appearances for him in Iowa, New Hampshire, Maine, New York, Massachusetts and Washington state. Mr. Kerry has won four of those states and is expected to win the other two when primaries are held there later this year.
Since signing onto the Kerry campaign, Mr. Wilson has joined forces with Win Without War, an antiwar group that charges President Bush misled Americans about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction capabilities. The group has collaborated with moveon.org, a liberal group that took out a full-page ad in the New York Times that ended with the words: "It would be a tragedy if young men and women were sent to die for a lie."
Addressing Kerry supporters in an Iowa rally in December, Mr. Wilson called Vice President Dick Cheney a "lying son of a bitch" for what he said was indifference to his report that intelligence on a Niger-Iraq uranium connection referenced by Mr. Bush in his 2003 State of the Union address was erroneous.
Mr. Wilson said he can label the incumbent president a "liar."
"I think I can call these guys in the White House liars a little more easily than John can, and talk about the people around the president much more directly — name names and say they ought to be fired," he said in November.
Mr. Wilson, who also served as acting ambassador in Baghdad under the administration of Mr. Bush's father, has donated $2,000 to the Kerry campaign, and in 2000, supported former Vice President Al Gore, whom he also gave $2,000. He has also contributed $2,000 to Democrats Sen. Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York.
Mr. Wilson ignited a firestorm last year when he accused Mr. Bush of manipulating intelligence to win support for the U.S. invasion of Iraq. Mr. Wilson had been dispatched to Niger by Mr. Cheney in February 2002 to check out intelligence reports that the African nation sold uranium to Iraq, but said he found it "highly doubtful that any such transaction had ever taken place."
More than nine months after Mr. Bush said in his State of the Union address that British intelligence had uncovered that Iraq "recently sought significant amounts of uranium from Africa" — the infamous "16 words" — Mr. Wilson wrote an article published in the New York Times in which he said "some of the intelligence related to Iraq's nuclear weapons program was twisted to exaggerate the Iraqi threat."
In May 2003, after his mission to Niger but before his July 6, 2003, Times op-ed piece, Mr. Wilson began working for Mr. Kerry as an unpaid adviser, offering foreign policy advice and speechwriting tips.
A week after the Times piece ran, a conservative columnist wrote on July 14 that White House officials had leaked the name of Mr. Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, as retribution. Rumors swirled that the administration was striking out at Mr. Wilson through his wife, who originally proposed him for the Niger mission.
Mr. Wilson originally said reporters told him that White House political adviser Karl Rove told them his wife was "fair game," a statement he later retracted.
In September, Mr. Kerry — who is making prewar intelligence a prime campaign issue — said the disclosure of Mrs. Plame's name "is more than another example of politics driving the Bush administration. ... A special counsel should be appointed immediately so that we can find out how George Bush let this happen and hold those responsible accountable."

[Ya-ta Boy]

sundubuman, you sound like you have a case of the 'yeahbuts'...That's when the teacher says:

Teacher: Joe, you threw a spit wad.
Joe: Yeah, but Tommy threw one first.
Teacher: It's against classroom rules to do that. You know that.
Joe: Yeah, but you should have caught Tommy.
Teacher: You know the consequences.
Joe: Yeah, but that isn't fair.

Yeahbuts are used when you want to deflect responsibilities from your own bad actions.

[The Bobster]

[sundubuman]

Earth to lefties......



here is a need to produce evidence that Valerie Plame qualifies as a "covert agent" per �� 426.
While there must be evidence that she served outside the U.S., a single official trip overseas within the previous five years (i.e. at any time from July, 1998, onward) might suffice. There are published reports that Plame served in London and Brussels in the early to mid-90s. However, this would not be sufficient to qualify Plame as a "covert agent" under the statutory definition as one "who is serving outside the United States or has within the last five years served outside the United States." �� 426(4)(a)(ii).
A statement by Wilson on Wolf Blitzer's July 14, 2005 CNN program that, "my wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her identity," has caused some to consider it an indication that Wilson acknowledged Plame was no longer covert at the time.

[Rteacher]

Hey, "Sumdumwhatever" (parden my spelling)...Do you realize that when you quote columnists from the Washington Times you are helping to spread the views of the great billionaire Korean cultmaster (and self-proclaimed second-coming of Jesus) Reverend Sun Myun Moon, who owns and controls that publication? Of course, right-wing so-called Christian leaders, who for-the-most part are just as bereft of real spiritual sense and values, have continued to accept this shady guy's money and influence...