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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| OiGirl wrote: |
And they want to not have to pass an English proficiency test? Because all those air towers in Japan, Thailand, and the US give approach information in Korean, right?
These negotiation points are terrifying!!! Do you think they will win them? |
I seriously doubt that English proficiency is a negotiable issue.
I trained an entire class of Chilean Air Force air traffic controllers and they explained to me that English is the international standard for air traffic. Even a Chilean pilot talking to a Chilean landing field must speak in English.
If the Korean pilots are attempting to argue this, they are showing that they don't even understand industry standards...which leads me to believe that (a) Korean pilots are just as stupid as the other Koreans I've met; or (b) maybe someone exaggerated when repeating the pilots' demands.
Frankly, given my experience in Korea, I don't know which one of these is more likely at this point. |
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hellofaniceguy
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: On your computer screen!
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| OiGirl wrote: |
And they want to not have to pass an English proficiency test? Because all those air towers in Japan, Thailand, and the US give approach information in Korean, right?
These negotiation points are terrifying!!! Do you think they will win them? |
I seriously doubt that English proficiency is a negotiable issue.
I trained an entire class of Chilean Air Force air traffic controllers and they explained to me that English is the international standard for air traffic. Even a Chilean pilot talking to a Chilean landing field must speak in English.
If the Korean pilots are attempting to argue this, they are showing that they don't even understand industry standards...which leads me to believe that (a) Korean pilots are just as stupid as the other Koreans I've met; or (b) maybe someone exaggerated when repeating the pilots' demands.
Frankly, given my experience in Korea, I don't know which one of these is more likely at this point. |
As much as I dislike many things koreans do and the way many behave...I would not say they are stupid...act stupid most of the times, yes. But then they also think foreigners are also stupid.
Trouble is...when the world is doing something one way and koreans the other way...it stands to reason then that koreans need some educating and catching up to do. The world will not change for koreans. |
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sadsac
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: Gwangwang
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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The info regarding their demands was in the Korean Herald today on page two. I do like the bit about the golf clubs though. Chatting with some of my ault students today, Asiana has a sorry track record for their pilots English proficiency. They have been denied landing permission on many occassions because the pilots couldn't understand the ATC's instructions. this is from a student that is a maintainance guy with the airline. Only in Korea.  |
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Barking Mad Lord Snapcase
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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In a few short years, these very same pilots - in the hazy stupor of a soju hangover - will be gathered en masse on the beach, their arms open plaintively to the Big Blue Mystery beyond, crying "Big Bad World, why you abandon us?".
It is about then that they will realize who is responsible for their woes; why, it is none other than the Island Kingdom on the other side of that Big Blue Mystery (the East Sea) that has cunningly lured foreign tourists away from them with its promise of safety, comfort and efficiency ...
... JAPAN!!!! |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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just because
Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Location: Changwon - 4964
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:48 am Post subject: |
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| hellofaniceguy wrote: |
"Pilots expressed a willingness to drop demands which came under heavy public criticism during yesterday's meeting, including the abolition of mandatory English ability tests and alcohol level tests before flying, and new golf equipment to use while they stay overseas. "
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It is my understanding that pilots must have a good understanding of English to be able to understand air traffic controllers...
If that demand goes through i will never fly on Asiana again....
The golf demand is creative though...I wouldn't mind a set of free gold clubs  |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:29 am Post subject: Are Koreans Stupid? |
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| hellofaniceguy wrote: |
| I would not say they are stupid...act stupid most of the times, yes...it stands to reason then that koreans need some educating and catching up to do. |
OK, clarification. Koreans are not born stupid. Some of the children I've seen are brilliant; others are just complainers...But, however this may be, their insular society makes them grow into Korean adults. And Korean adults are generally stupid people. There must be many exceptions that prove this rule. But they are mainly peasant-like, intensely xenophobic, and stupid. If pilots are hoping to get out of speaking English and still fly commercial airlines, with passengers' lives in their hands, that is just plain stupid.
Maybe if I were living in Seoul and able to get to the jazz clubs that Mith apparently gets to experience, and to deal with those kinds of exceptional Koreans, I'd feel differently.
Last edited by Gopher on Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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harixseldon
Joined: 27 Nov 2004
Location: Anseong
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:33 am Post subject: |
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Related: has anyone heard the rumor of other airlines pilots going on strike as well? I'll be pissed if my September vacation get's ruined!!! "Kicking every airline pilotin the kidney" pissed  |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:34 am Post subject: Re: Are Koreans Stupid? |
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| Gopher wrote: |
OK, clarification. Koreans are not born stupid. Some of the children I've seen are brilliant; others are just complainers...But, however this may be, their insular society makes them grow into Korean adults. And Korean adults are generally stupid people. There must be many exceptions that prove this rule. But they are mainly peasant-like, intensely xenophobic, and stupid.
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Man, you really just don't know do you?
If you really feel these blantantly racist feelings you should not be here. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:36 am Post subject: Re: Are Koreans Stupid? |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| If you really feel these blantantly racist feelings you should not be here. |
You're misusing the word. If I had said that they were born stupid, or were stupid because they were ethnically Korean, that would make me a racist.
I said, however, that they are made into stupid adults by their society. This does not make me racist but experienced. Racist is what Koreans tend to be. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:05 am Post subject: Re: Are Koreans Stupid? |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| If you really feel these blantantly racist feelings you should not be here. |
You're misusing the word. |
Um, no i'm not. And if you cannot see that you have said a racist comment then you may truly never understand |
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junkmail
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:11 am Post subject: |
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| just because wrote: |
It is my understanding that pilots must have a good understanding of English to be able to understand air traffic controllers...
If that demand goes through i will never fly on Asiana again....
The golf demand is creative though...I wouldn't mind a set of free gold clubs |
Actually, no.
Most native speakers wouldn't understand "Follow the Grasmere two alpha Star" either.
A very small and specialised vocabulary is used.
Also, I've seen no conformation of these demands.
$100,000 per year, for senior captains maybe. Asian airlines generally do pay more for their pilots and give better benifits with the exception of China. None the less, I'm guessing the average co-pilot gets nearer $40,000.
They're not 'lucky' to be doing their job, they worked damned hard, that's why they are where they are and we are ranting on a forum. |
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funplanet
Joined: 20 Jun 2003
Location: The new Bucheon!
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:15 am Post subject: |
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those reports are scary...there is a short video of a KAL making a very unusual landing at Hong Kong's Kai Chek (?), the old airport....which required a lot of skill!!....
the plane landed sideways, if that is even possible, and almost flew/skidded into HK harbour...
quite funny if there were no passengers on board...
gotta find the video |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:16 am Post subject: Re: Are Koreans Stupid? |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| If you really feel these blantantly racist feelings you should not be here. |
You're misusing the word. |
Um, no i'm not. And if you cannot see that you have said a racist comment then you may truly never understand |
Yes, you are. Saying "Um, no i'm not" is not a valid refutation. But I don't have time to get into a debate with a guy who doesn't know what "racism" means or how to make a valid point other than resorting to consdescending "you may truly never understand" phraseology.
Did I make an undiplomatic and a non-PC comment? Absolutely. Intentionally so. But truth is a valid defense.
Did I make a racist comment? Absolutely not.
Last edited by Gopher on Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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junkmail
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:19 am Post subject: |
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| funplanet wrote: |
those reports are scary...there is a short video of a KAL making a very unusual landing at Hong Kong's Kai Chek (?), the old airport....which required a lot of skill!!....
the plane landed sideways, if that is even possible, and almost flew/skidded into HK harbour...
quite funny if there were no passengers on board...
gotta find the video |
True, but they've done a lot of work since those days. Their recent record has been really good.
Interestingly, they brought in a lot of foreign crews to tidy up their handling of human resources. |
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