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whatthefunk

Joined: 21 Apr 2003 Location: Dont have a clue
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 12:21 am Post subject: |
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Leslie Cheswyck wrote: |
That's life, brother. Whose responsibility is it to improve your life? I wouldn't trust a Walmart to fend for me in that line. Anybody who does, well, maybe they do deserve to be making only six and a half an hour. |
Yes, that is life. And I agree that it is not walmarts responsibility to improve someones life. It is the individuals responsibility to improve their own life. That is why unions exist. Unions are groups of individuals who are attempting to improve their lives by forcing companies to raise wages and working conditions. |
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desultude

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 12:37 am Post subject: |
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whatthefunk wrote: |
Leslie Cheswyck wrote: |
That's life, brother. Whose responsibility is it to improve your life? I wouldn't trust a Walmart to fend for me in that line. Anybody who does, well, maybe they do deserve to be making only six and a half an hour. |
Yes, that is life. And I agree that it is not walmarts responsibility to improve someones life. It is the individuals responsibility to improve their own life. That is why unions exist. Unions are groups of individuals who are attempting to improve their lives by forcing companies to raise wages and working conditions. |
exactly! |
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shakuhachi

Joined: 08 Feb 2003 Location: Sydney
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 1:01 am Post subject: |
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Hold on, isnt Walmart the company that employs all those illegal immigrants? I dont see unions being able to have any leverage in that case. |
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Hank Scorpio

Joined: 18 Jan 2003 Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 2:05 am Post subject: |
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whatthefunk wrote: |
That is why unions exist. Unions are groups of individuals who are attempting to improve their lives by forcing companies to raise wages and working conditions. |
And corporations exist because a group of people collectively pooled their money at great financial risk in the hope that they'd at least see some kind of return on that investment. Corporations are owned by groups of individuals who are attempting to improve their lives by providing a service that people will pay for, and they provide the added benefit of creating jobs for the society they're based out of.
If they have the muscle to crush a union (and you'd better believe that Walmart has that muscle) then were I a shareholder I'd be very pleased. |
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whatthefunk

Joined: 21 Apr 2003 Location: Dont have a clue
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 3:26 am Post subject: |
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Hank Scorpio wrote: |
whatthefunk wrote: |
That is why unions exist. Unions are groups of individuals who are attempting to improve their lives by forcing companies to raise wages and working conditions. |
And corporations exist because a group of people collectively pooled their money at great financial risk in the hope that they'd at least see some kind of return on that investment. Corporations are owned by groups of individuals who are attempting to improve their lives by providing a service that people will pay for, and they provide the added benefit of creating jobs for the society they're based out of.
If they have the muscle to crush a union (and you'd better believe that Walmart has that muscle) then were I a shareholder I'd be very pleased. |
Yes, corporations are also groups of people trying to improve their lives. But some of them are groups of people who are trying to improve their lives by screwing other people out of hard earned money. Some of them are grouops of people who have billions of dollars but still wont pay their employees enough to live on.
Youo shouldnt view life only through the eyes of a shareholder of some big corporation because most of the people in this world arent share holders in anything but themselves. |
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Leslie Cheswyck

Joined: 31 May 2003 Location: University of Western Chile
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 3:55 am Post subject: |
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Hey, what if there were no Walmart? Then these $6.50 an hour employees would be working somewhere else.
But Walmart does exist. And because Walmart exists the company owes...what, exactly? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:08 am Post subject: |
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I've never understood why entrepreneurship is the only part of business that should be rewarded. It seems to me that both risking the capital and supplying the labor are essential components to a successful business.
Capitalism is great at creating wealth, but really poor at distributing it. Attempts to ameliorate the deficiencies of an unjust system are inevitable. The common sense thing for successful businesses to do is to take the position that employees share in the profits to some extent since they share in creating the wealth and suffer when management is lousy. |
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Hank Scorpio

Joined: 18 Jan 2003 Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:55 am Post subject: |
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Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
The common sense thing for successful businesses to do is to take the position that employees share in the profits to some extent since they share in creating the wealth and suffer when management is lousy. |
This already happens. Labor has worth. Depending on what type of labor you do/are qualified for that labor is worth more or less. Likewise, labor works under supply and demand just like anything else. Not performing skilled labor? Then sorry, the pool of people who can do what you do is very large and the demand for your labor is also smaller. Want to make more? Pursue an education, because that's the only way you're going to increase your skillset.
Tired of being a wage slave? Start your own business, many of which don't cost much to start. Hell, I started my business (residential and commercial painting) for next to nothing; a used van that ran me $600, and a minimum of equipment. As I went along I picked up extra tools that made me more efficient and thus increased my profit (compressors, sprayers, etc.)
I now employ 4 people, pay them good wages ($10/hr for a helper, around $15-$20 for a painter), provide them with a health plan and limited dental, and oh, have to do all the paperwork that entails, which believe me, you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy.
Do I make more than my people? Am I making a decent profit? You bet your ass I am, and the reason for that is that I'm the one jumping through all the hoops. I do the paperwork. I go out and do estimates, bid on jobs, keep these guys working. After doing all this I also go out with them every morning to paint. What do they have to do? Show up to the jobsite on time.
I'm the one who layed out all the initial risk to start this business and should the market go bad I'm the one who'll be hardest hit and lose the most. I like all of these guys. I treat them well and we all tend to hang out together. That said, if they told me they were starting a union (which of course, with only 4 people would never happen) I'd can every last one of them without a second thought. |
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desultude

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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Leslie Cheswyck wrote: |
Hey, what if there were no Walmart? Then these $6.50 an hour employees would be working somewhere else.
But Walmart does exist. And because Walmart exists the company owes...what, exactly? |
They would be working at the stores that Walmart put out of business with their concerted business plan to do so- drive down the prices, drive out the mom and pops, then raise the prices. |
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ChimpumCallao

Joined: 17 May 2005 Location: your mom
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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Scorpio, don't even bother. It is impossible to argue with those on the 'victim' soapbox.
Wal mart put those stores out of business because it's better at what it does. It is only fulfilling the desire of the market, i.e. the people.
Why do people hate success so much?
All I hear here is whining. Offer a solution as to how wages can be high in wal mart and they can still offer those low low prices. Are the pocketbooks of the wal mart worker more important than the pocketbooks of the millions of people that rely on wal mart because they simply can't afford to shop anywhere else? |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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solution: costco managed to find a way.
didn't read the article did you?  |
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desultude

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:52 am Post subject: |
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bucheon bum wrote: |
solution: costco managed to find a way.
didn't read the article did you?  |
Fancy that. I had already suggested this. In Fact, I am considering getting some Costco stock myself. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:26 am Post subject: |
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If Costco can handle itself mano y mano against Walmart certainly I see no reason why Hank Scorpio should object. It seems he even agrees with the policy of treating his workers well. So? What's the problem with Costco? If someone has a moral objection to paying people little money and they want to buy at another store that in itself could be a marketing strategy... |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:43 am Post subject: |
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I'm reminded of the gentleman in Massachusetts. He inherited the family business (shoes or textiles or something). Paid his workers well. Then his factory burned down. He called the workers together. They were expecting him to say the company would close or move to Mexico. No, he told them he would continue to pay them while the factory was being rebuilt.
Someone asked him why he would use his money that way. His answer: "What? Should I take another trip to Paris instead?" (or words to that effect) |
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ChimpumCallao

Joined: 17 May 2005 Location: your mom
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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bucheon bum wrote: |
solution: costco managed to find a way.
didn't read the article did you? ;-) |
If costco was better than wal-mart in ALL business practices then it would have run then out a long time ago. There are certain factors that still make wal-mart competitive such as not requiring membership or for you to buy in bulk to attain low prices.
Think about the demographics of wal mart versus costco shoppers. Who do you REALLY think benefits the poor more? |
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