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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| keithinkorea wrote: |
Twas a tragedy bobster, but the guy was an idiot. With recent problems in London the police are not going to ask you nicely, especially if yuo're wearing sus clothes.
The guy should have stopped running, lay on his belly and chilled out. Instead he ran jumped a barrier and ran down to a train. I'm no big fan of the filth but I defend their actions in trying to keep Londoners safe.
It was an accident, but there is a message. If an oficial type with a gun tells you to stop moving you stop. His English was supposedly excellent!
I feel sorry for him, an innocent man gunned down. Doesn't change the fact he was a bloody idiot. |
Earlier, I believe you said :
It's a shame they didn't unload into his knees first (supposed to be very painful)
And I trhink you said worse than that as well. A lot of what you said looked pretty ugly to me. The guy seems to have been guilty of absolutely nothing and the best you can come up with is that it was a tragedy but the guy was an idiot.
How can you justify such thoughts? Mainly, I'm curious, you see.
What strikes me most is that the kind of emotioonal reactionhs I'm seeing here are EXACTLY the aim and primary goal of the madmen who create this kind of violence ... this seems so clear that I cannot understand why so many in these pages succumb to it so readily. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| What strikes me most is that the kind of emotioonal reactionhs I'm seeing here are EXACTLY the aim and primary goal of the madmen who create this kind of violence ... this seems so clear that I cannot understand why so many in these pages succumb to it so readily. |
Internet discussion boards breed these types of responses, although I won't argue that it might be the intention of bombers to rile us up. |
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Hyeon Een
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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It's very sad that this happened.
Why did he run though?
From some of the pictures I've seen of these undercover officers, they were dressed in jeans and t-shirts or hoodies and so forth. I would be somewhat wary of a guy dressed like that pulling a gun on me. I might run if I thought I had a good chance of getting away. The way the guy reacted, I'd say he was probably messed up in some minor criminal stuff and thought some gangsters were after him. Or perhaps some muggers with guns were trying to rob him (maybe he had a load of money under his jacket or something.)
Why did he run?
Why didn't the police officers try and stop him before he went into the station if they thought he might have a bomb?
Perhaps more to this story will come out in the next couple of days.
-HE |
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keithinkorea
Joined: 17 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| keithinkorea wrote: |
Twas a tragedy bobster, but the guy was an idiot. With recent problems in London the police are not going to ask you nicely, especially if yuo're wearing sus clothes.
The guy should have stopped running, lay on his belly and chilled out. Instead he ran jumped a barrier and ran down to a train. I'm no big fan of the filth but I defend their actions in trying to keep Londoners safe.
It was an accident, but there is a message. If an oficial type with a gun tells you to stop moving you stop. His English was supposedly excellent!
I feel sorry for him, an innocent man gunned down. Doesn't change the fact he was a bloody idiot. |
Earlier, I believe you said :
It's a shame they didn't unload into his knees first (supposed to be very painful)
And I trhink you said worse than that as well. A lot of what you said looked pretty ugly to me. The guy seems to have been guilty of absolutely nothing and the best you can come up with is that it was a tragedy but the guy was an idiot.
How can you justify such thoughts? Mainly, I'm curious, you see.
What strikes me most is that the kind of emotioonal reactionhs I'm seeing here are EXACTLY the aim and primary goal of the madmen who create this kind of violence ... this seems so clear that I cannot understand why so many in these pages succumb to it so readily. |
Well the guy was an idiot. It was a nasty thing to happen, but he shouldn't have ran away and that's the end of it. Jumping onto a tube train when being chased by armed police is a very stupid thing to do given the current situation in London and the current atmosphere.
A tragic accident but it is understandable that this happened, it's strange that you dont understand that someone who has quite a few friends and family who work in London would not have a lot of sympathy for the victims and be angered by the barbaric acts of the terrorists.
He wasn't guilty of anything more than terrible stupidity. |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Don't overlook that fact that this guy came out of a house under surveillance in connection with the bombings. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Wangja wrote: |
| Don't overlook that fact that this guy came out of a house under surveillance in connection with the bombings. |
exactly. His appearance was very similar to a Pakistani (confirmed by eyewitnesses), he was wearing a padded jacket in the hot summer weather. He emerged from a house under surveillance, in an area notorious for crime. He not only refused to stop and ran, but cleared a barrier in his rush to escape onto a train.
The only excuse I can think of for him is that in brazil, a country rife with gunfights and street crime, you would not hesitate to run when pursued by plain- clothed ( I think they were?) men waving guns.
Unfortunate but very understandable and forgiveable in the current climate. the safety of hundreds of commuters on that train had to be the first priority. |
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trigger123
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Location: TALKING TO STRANGERS, IN A BETTER PLACE
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| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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both my father and his father were police officers, so i am the first to defend the Police when it's criticised; a learned reaction that sometimes stops me from looking at the whole picture.
police brutality at a riot on film? - you didn't catch what the protesters were doing with petrol bombs, coppers reacting to seeing their mates burning
police shooting dead an unarmed man with a table leg? - the bloke was a nutter and seeing him walk towards me... well i'd think it was a gun too.
but here... i dunno... the guy was chased by plains clothes armed officers... why wasn't he stopped when he left the house? the house's address, containing many individual flats, was found at the house of one of the bombers - a check through the records and its a brazilian called mendes, its not mustapha.
why did he run? i dunno, he was scared, like the officers who shot him. and despite our claims, we all are. defiant yes, but i believe that we are scared too. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:32 am Post subject: |
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Police say more innocents could die in bomb hunt
LONDON (Reuters) - Police say more members of the public could be shot in error as they escalate their battle against terrorism
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/050725/325/fo2x5.html |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
| ...in Brazil, a country rife with gunfights and street crime, you would not hesitate to run when pursued by plain- clothed ( I think they were?) men waving guns... |
There is an implicit issue that I'm not clear on here: was the Brazilian national a short-term vacationer on holiday or visiting family or something? Or had he been residing in London for years?
We really don't know too much about this specific situation to be sure we understand what role, if any, Brazilian culture might have played in this guy's reactions to police commands...
Still, not only should you always obey police instructions, but you should be particularly careful when you're in an environment like London today...that's just the bottome line. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:41 am Post subject: |
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| trigger123 wrote: |
| why wasn't he stopped when he left the house? |
Probably to avoid burning the surveillance... |
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gdimension
Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Location: Jeju
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:47 am Post subject: |
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According to the latest news I've heard/seen on CNN regarding the man shot...
He had been living in London for 9 months, working as an electrician, and had become "fluent" (I don't know if he had prior English skills or not, but, if not, I find it hard to believe that someone could truly become fluent in 9 months) in English. This was, I believe, according to his father. |
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dulouz
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Uranus
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| Maybe he was an illegal immigrant running from the police. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| dulouz wrote: |
| Maybe he was an illegal immigrant running from the police. |
Shrewd guess dulouz, which turned out to be true.
For those of you who can't believe an illegal immigrant would risk everything to run from police, let me assure you i've done it, in Australia. I overstayed my visa by almost as long as this guy did. and i had 2 memorable close shaves with the police. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| I've changed my mind. Even if he looked like a terrorist carrying a bomb, they should have let him go because he might have been a muslim. |
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