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Infoseeker
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Lurking somewhere near Seoul
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 Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| junkmail wrote: |
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And please wake up to the reality of what has taken place in the Middle East.
A foreign power entered their land, overcame one of their more powerful nations in short period of time, changed the government to a friendly one, and has succeeded in recruiting thousands of individuals to join the new army of police officers who will police their own country in the future -- based on the new pro-US government.
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Women weren't wearing Burkhas in Iraq before.
It was a secular country. Women were educated and had jobs.
Not being a democracy gave you no right to invade them.
We'll see if it remains secular or whether you've just unleashed a nightmare. |
That's the sad irony of Bush and Blair pretending that one of the justifications for their wars and occupations is that they are promoting women's rights. In both Iraq and Afghanistan (once you get out of that glittering showcase Kabul) women have it far far worse than before. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 4:50 am Post subject: |
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| That's the sad irony of Bush and Blair pretending that one of the justifications for their wars and occupations is that they are promoting women's rights. In both Iraq and Afghanistan (once you get out of that glittering showcase Kabul) women have it far far worse than before. |
Womens' rights are worse now in Afghanistan then they were under the Taliban?  |
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Infoseeker
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Lurking somewhere near Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:58 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
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| That's the sad irony of Bush and Blair pretending that one of the justifications for their wars and occupations is that they are promoting women's rights. In both Iraq and Afghanistan (once you get out of that glittering showcase Kabul) women have it far far worse than before. |
Womens' rights are worse now in Afghanistan then they were under the Taliban? |
That�s pretty na�ve Joo. To oust the Taleban, the US allied itself with the other thugs and rapists every bit as horrible as the Taleban. Check out the links and quotes to see what others have to say:
A report by Human Rights Watch reported that violence, political intimidation and attacks on women and girls are increasing.
| Brad Adams, Executive Director of the Asia Division of Human Rights Watch wrote: |
| Human rights abuses in Afghanistan are being committed by gunmen and warlords who were propelled into power by the US and its coalition partners after the Taliban fell in 2001. |
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Latest U.S. Attack Makes Afghan Situation Worse
March 26, 2004
Contact: Mariam Daudi, 626-797-5571 or [email protected]
Afghan Women's Mission
http://www.afghanwomensmission.org
Latest U.S. Attack Makes Afghan Situation Worse
As the U.S. conducts more attacks in Afghanistan and Pakistan, RAWA says that the conditions in Afghanistan are worse than before the U.S.-led invasion.
"Operation Mountain Storm", which began March 15, is the latest in a series of attacks that are weakening security all over Afghanistan.
"The US should pull out of Afghanistan and immediately cooperate with the UN to bring in peacekeeping forces that could actually improve the country," said Sahar Saba, committee member for foreign affairs at the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan.
"The US 'war on terrorism' has caused so many miseries to our innocent people... It is painful to hear some Western leaders and media speak frequently about the 'liberation' of Afghanistan. Our land is not free yet."
RAWA, the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan, was established in Kabul, Afghanistan in 1977 as an independent political/social organization of Afghan women fighting for human rights and for social justice in Afghanistan.
The US-led invasion replaced the Taliban with an equally cruel and dangerous regime. The Northern Alliance, now the basis for the interim Afghan government, is responsible for many atrocities such as rape and murder.
Simply replacing one fundamentalist regime in Afghanistan with another cannot root out terrorism, the Association says. The continued influence of fundamentalists and warlords poses a grave obstacle to the establishment of civil and governmental stability. |
And from another article:
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A lot of women told us they had hoped things would change rapidly for the better after the overthrow of the Taleban, so there is a sense of disappointment," she said.
"But on education, employment and security there is a feeling that, generally, things have not improved ... and in some cases have got worse." |
For the full article check here
http://www.rawa.org/ai-wom05-2.htm
It�s not only homegrown warlords who are at it: Amnesty International interviewed women who spoke of beatings, humiliation, solitary confinement and threats of rape when they were detained by US troops.
According to Amnesty, �Women have been subjected to sexual threats by members of the US-led forces and some women detained by US forces have been sexually abused, possibly raped�.
The RAWA website is worth checking out. Pretty depressing reading though. http://www.rawa.org/recent2.htm |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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see below
Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Sun Jul 31, 2005 12:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| That뭩 pretty na?e Joo. To oust the Taleban, the US allied itself with the other thugs and rapists every bit as horrible as the Taleban. Check out the links and quotes to see what others have to say: |
You said that womens rights were worse now than they were under the Taliban. That is nonsense. Because they could not be worse.
Yes the US did ally with some very bad people but not all of the Northern alliance is /are that way.
Besides the Northern alliance aren't out to get the US. Nor do they have a geo political agenda to wipe out other relgions.
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It뭩 not only homegrown warlords who are at it: Amnesty International interviewed women who spoke of beatings, humiliation, solitary confinement and threats of rape when they were detained by US troops.
According to Amnesty, 밯omen have been subjected to sexual threats by members of the US-led forces and some women detained by US forces have been sexually abused, possibly raped? |
Yeah why not show it.
Just as valid as your links
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| Since the fall of the Taliban in late 2001, many would agree that the political and cultural position of Afghan women has improved substantially. The recently adopted Afghan constitution states that "the citizens of Afghanistan - whether man or woman- have equal rights and duties before the law". So far, women have been allowed to return back to work, the government no longer forces them to wear the all covering burqa, and they even have been appointed to prominent positions in the government. Despite all these changes many challenges still remain. The repression of women is still prevalent in rural areas where many families still restrict their own mothers, daughters, wives and sisters from participation in public life. They are still forced into marriages and denied a basic education. Numerous school for girls have been burned down and little girls have even been poisoned to death for daring to go to school. |
http://www.afghan-web.com/woman/
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Many people outside the country believe that Afghan women and girls have had their rights restored. It's just not true," said Zama Coursen-Neff, the co-author of the report and counsel to the Children's Rights Division of Human Rights Watch. "Women and girls are still being abused, harassed, and threatened all over Afghanistan, often by government troops and officials."
Human Rights Watch found that women's and girls' rights in Herat had improved since the fall of the Taliban, noting that many women and girls have been allowed to return to school and university, and to some jobs. But the report found that these advances were tempered by growing government repression of social and political life. Ismail Khan has censored women's groups, intimidated outspoken women leaders, and sidelined women from his administration in Herat. Restrictions on the right to work mean that many women will never be able to use their education. |
http://www.hrw.org/press/2002/12/herat1217.htm
It is not great but it womens rights are better than than they were under the Taliban cause there was no where to go but up.
and if things aren't as good as they ought to be it is often because Taliban fighters are the cause.
http://www.noticias.info/Archivo/2004/200410/20041005/20041005_35079.shtm
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| The 39-page report, ��Between Hope and Fear: Intimidation and Threats Against Women in Public Life in Afghanistan,�� details how warlord factions, the Taliban and various insurgent groups attack and harass women government officials, election workers, journalists and women��s rights activists. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Seriously. We're talking about Afghanistan here, not exactly a bastion of liberalism by any stretch of the imagination. There is plenty of valid, reasonable criticism of the United States and its foreign policy, but you're asking for the impossible if you expect the US to ally itself with some benevolent forces that adhere to western standards when it comes to women. |
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Infoseeker
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Lurking somewhere near Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 4:21 am Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| you're asking for the impossible if you expect the US to ally itself with some benevolent forces that adhere to western standards when it comes to women. |
I wouldn't expect any such thing from the gool ole US of A! |
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Infoseeker
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Lurking somewhere near Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 4:26 am Post subject: |
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For those who readily accepted the "it's for women's rights" justification for invading Iraq:
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Iraqi women were long the most liberated in the Middle East. Occupation has largely confined them to their homes. A typical Iraqi woman's day begins with the struggle to get the basics: electricity, petrol or a cylinder of gas, water, food and medication. It ends with a sigh of relief at surviving death threats and violent attacks. For most women, simply to venture on to the street is to risk being attacked or kidnapped for profit or revenge. Young girls are sold to neighbouring countries for prostitution.
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A quota system imposed by Paul Bremer, the former head of the Coalition Provisional Authority, ensures women's participation in the interim government, the national assembly and the committee appointed to write the constitution. Iraqi women's historical struggle against colonial domination, and for national unity, social justice and legal equality, has been reduced to bickering among a handful of "women leaders" over nominal political posts.
Powerless, holed up in guarded areas, venturing out in daylight only with armed escorts, and lacking any credibility among Iraqi women, the failure of these "leaders" is catastrophic. Like their male colleagues, they have adopted a selective, largely US-oriented approach to human rights. The suffering of their sisters in cities showered with napalm, phosphorus and cluster bombs by US jets, the death of an estimated 100,000 Iraqis (half of them women and children), is met with rhetoric about training women for leadership and democracy.
Documents released in March by the American Civil Liberties Union highlight more than a dozen cases of rape and abuse of female detainees, and reveal that no action was taken against any soldier or civilian official as a result - and that US troops have destroyed evidence, to avoid a repetition of last year's Abu Ghraib scandal.
The silence of female National Assembly members and interim-government and US-financed women's NGOs is deafening. In Iraq, "women's rights" is an absurd discourse chewing on meaningless words. No wonder that the US-funded NGOs, which preach western-style women's rights and democracy, are regarded as vehicles for foreign manipulation and are despised and boycotted, even when they recruit liberal or left personalities.
Iraqi women know that the enemy is not Islam. There is a strong antipathy to anyone trying to conscript women's issues to the racist "war on terror" targeted against the Muslim world. Most Iraqi women do not regard traditional society, exemplified by the neighbourhood and extended family, however restrictive at times, as the enemy. In fact, it has in practice been the protector of women and children, of their physical safety and welfare, despite lowest-common-denominator demands on dress and personal conduct. The enemy is the collapse of the state and civil society. And the culprit is the foreign military invasion and occupation. |
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1550325,00.html |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 4:31 am Post subject: |
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| Infoseeker wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| you're asking for the impossible if you expect the US to ally itself with some benevolent forces that adhere to western standards when it comes to women. |
I wouldn't expect any such thing from the gool ole US of A! |
the US did what it could remember it was being attacked by Bathists , Khomeni lovers and Bin Laden followers. |
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