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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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 Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't have time to read every message, but my heart really goes out to the OP. I hope he gets things sorted, and I don't believe he deserves the crap he's getting.
I think that one big factor to consider is intent. He wanted to work legally. If those who intentially work illegally get busted, I have little sympathy for them; however, this was not the case.
I was so luck with the job I just started. They didn't have my paperwork ready at the start of the contract, so they started me out on my paid summer vacation. Today I got visa and am ready to go. I wish everyone else who had employers who don't quite know what they're doing could be so lucky. |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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Eh?
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| I think that one big factor to consider is intent. He wanted to work legally. If those who intentially work illegally get busted, I have little sympathy for them; however, this was not the case. |
Did he have his visa? No he didnt! Did he work anyways? Yes he did. Did he go to work intentionally? Yes he did. Did he know he was breaking the law? Yes he did.
That is the case!
Sympathy...is somewhere in the dictionary between sh!t and syphallis! |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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I'm just wondering why so many people feel the need to bring up this horrible, HORRIBLE fact that rawiri was working illegally. Maybe I just come from a different way of life or something, but people have to get by, and as long as they're not stealing from others (and I'm sure this statement will compel someone to explain to me how working illegally really is stealing, blah blah blah, as if I'm not aware), I don't think it deserves these sometimes vicious or aggressive comments concerning it.
I guess I also come from the way of life that says, "If you ain't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." The guy asks for advice and what to expect and people gloat and guffaw about it. |
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buddy bradley
Joined: 24 Aug 2003
Location: The Beyond
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Zyzyfer wrote: |
I guess I also come from the way of life that says, "If you ain't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." |
And I'm sure that all those bargirls you've insulted feel the same way... |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| buddy bradley wrote: |
| Zyzyfer wrote: |
I guess I also come from the way of life that says, "If you ain't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." |
And I'm sure that all those bargirls you've insulted feel the same way... |
Hey now, they had it coming. |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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I dont know.....Rawiri isnt a newb, I just dont understand why he would agree to work illegally.....once you have done your visa run and have your blue paper you are free to work legally. Why screw around with the system? Especially now with all the hulabaloo going on.
His boss should have booked his visa run a couple of weeks earlier...why do they put it off? |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Grotto wrote: |
I dont know.....Rawiri isnt a newb, I just dont understand why he would agree to work illegally.....once you have done your visa run and have your blue paper you are free to work legally. Why screw around with the system? Especially now with all the hulabaloo going on.
His boss should have booked his visa run a couple of weeks earlier...why do they put it off? |
He's not a newb, but a lot of folks don't know about the recent changes in immigration policy. rawiri himself said that there was a problem with transcripts, which caused the delay. Would his director really wait a month for little old him? I doubt it, because if I was running a business, I probably wouldn't either. |
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livinginkorea
Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Location: Korea, South of the border
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Grotto"]I dont know.....Rawiri isnt a newb, I just dont understand why he would agree to work illegally.....once you have done your visa run and have your blue paper you are free to work legally. Why screw around with the system? Especially now with all the hulabaloo going on.
[quote]
Exactly. If your not new to Korea then you know the system and the reputation of immigration, who seem to be doing a good job as so many foreigners are getting caught. The message is clear to everybody - don't work illegally.
Having said that rawiri, they seem to be holding you a long time and hopefully they will just fine you and not deport you. I heard some other stories before about this but I didn't think that it took so long. Not being put in jail is definity a good sign!! Immigration are probably milking your boss as well for extra cash. Best of luck and keep us posted! |
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Homer
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:22 am Post subject: |
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Whatever happened to planning, even minimally, for bad turn of events?
The OP worked for 11 months and then was canned or lost his job. This is bad. However, who, after 11 months of working in Korea with free accomodations does not have at least a couple of grand in the bank?
Come on now. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:31 am Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
Whatever happened to planning, even minimally, for bad turn of events?
The OP worked for 11 months and then was canned or lost his job. This is bad. However, who, after 11 months of working in Korea with free accomodations does not have at least a couple of grand in the bank?
Come on now. |
Hindsight is 20/20. |
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:43 am Post subject: |
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No Zyf.
Its not 20/20 hindsight...its just basic common sense.
11 months of wages with at least a fair proportion of disposable income....this should net at least 1-3 grand in savings no?
Come on now Zyf, be honest here.
I arrived here just before the IMF meltdown. I had student loan payments, a lower wage then what is paid now and a currency exchange rate that was in the toilet.
Yet, after 11 months, while living large, I still managed to have a few thousand in the bank. This was no miracle or big planning, its just common sense.
Then, if a person ends up with zilch in savings after 11 months and then gets in a bad spot...whose fault is it?
They made the decision not to save anything and then were "forced" to work illegally. This ends up with a bust.
Really now...this is completely ridiculous. I do hope the OP gets out of the trouble he landed in. I really do. But he landed there largely because of decisions he made.
Sorry but at some point people need to take responsability for their choices and actions no Zyf? |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
| Sorry but at some point people need to take responsability for their choices and actions no Zyf? |
This is all that's worth discussing, in relation to the thread.
The guy was asking for advice on what to do and what to expect. He was not asking for judgement calls or posts reminding him that he messed up. He's ironically trying to be responsible and be on the up and up about what's he's gotten himself into. Nevertheless, several people feel the need to berate the guy. That's what I don't get.
It feels like this forum isn't a place to get help, but rather only a place for people so sit around and thump their chests about how much money they make teaching privates, or how their hakwon is great, or how they're better than X nationality, or reminding someone else how they messed up.
If he had posted this on General, and the post went something like this:
"Man, I got snagged by immigration! I already got fired by my last boss after 11 months, and then I started working for this new company, but I was illegal and couldn't get the visa yet, and immigration busted me! Doesn't that suck?"
then I wouldn't bother to say a word about people criticizing him, because he would be asking for it there. But he's only asking for HELP. Why is it so hard for people to simply provide HELP? Why do people feel this need to remind him that he was breaking laws and didn't have any cash saved up, and also feel the need to tell him what he did wrong and even go to the point to tell him what he should've done?
How does this help him with his situation? Even if he's deported, he needs advice on his next move to make. He needs to know what to expect during the process of deciding his fate. He doesn't need people telling him he's foolish when I reckon it's already pretty obvious that he could've went about things better. This is why I say hindsight is 20/20. People learn from their mistakes. Hell, I learned a valuable lesson on a smaller scale today about riding bicycles on wet and busy roads with a cigarette. Of course it's idiotic, but what's done is done, and I know better next time. Of course, this is on a much larger scale, but, to me, the same philosophy applies.
This is the Job Discussion Forum, not the playground, and not the bar. If you haven't got anything nice (read: useful) to say, why say anything? |
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hellofaniceguy
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: On your computer screen!
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:19 am Post subject: |
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| Zyzyfer wrote: |
| Homer wrote: |
| Sorry but at some point people need to take responsability for their choices and actions no Zyf? |
This is all that's worth discussing, in relation to the thread.
The guy was asking for advice on what to do and what to expect. He was not asking for judgement calls or posts reminding him that he messed up. He's ironically trying to be responsible and be on the up and up about what's he's gotten himself into. Nevertheless, several people feel the need to berate the guy. That's what I don't get.
It feels like this forum isn't a place to get help, but rather only a place for people so sit around and thump their chests about how much money they make teaching privates, or how their hakwon is great, or how they're better than X nationality, or reminding someone else how they messed up.
If he had posted this on General, and the post went something like this:
"Man, I got snagged by immigration! I already got fired by my last boss after 11 months, and then I started working for this new company, but I was illegal and couldn't get the visa yet, and immigration busted me! Doesn't that suck?"
then I wouldn't bother to say a word about people criticizing him, because he would be asking for it there. But he's only asking for HELP. Why is it so hard for people to simply provide HELP? Why do people feel this need to remind him that he was breaking laws and didn't have any cash saved up, and also feel the need to tell him what he did wrong and even go to the point to tell him what he should've done?
How does this help him with his situation? Even if he's deported, he needs advice on his next move to make. He needs to know what to expect during the process of deciding his fate. He doesn't need people telling him he's foolish when I reckon it's already pretty obvious that he could've went about things better. This is why I say hindsight is 20/20. People learn from their mistakes. Hell, I learned a valuable lesson on a smaller scale today about riding bicycles on wet and busy roads with a cigarette. Of course it's idiotic, but what's done is done, and I know better next time. Of course, this is on a much larger scale, but, to me, the same philosophy applies.
This is the Job Discussion Forum, not the playground, and not the bar. If you haven't got anything nice (read: useful) to say, why say anything? |
Good advice...and I'll try and remember it.
I was not flaming the OP...but...come on now....we all KNOW it's illegal to work without immigration approval. No help can be had.
It's like the cop who pulls over the speeder doing 90 in a 40 zone....driver says...officer..please give me a warning this time...cop says..you have had warnings up and down this road...the speed limit signs are posted...that's your warning. Immigration does not give warnings...you play...you pay.
No one I am sure likes being in jail...well...maybe some do! Let's see....24 hour security, free room and board, free medical, TV, phone, mail, showers, no bills to pay...just being funny I am.
I can feel for the OP and I am sure he feels real terrible, worried and scared. I'm sorry if I came down on you OP. Wasn't meant to come across like that. |
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Homer
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:32 am Post subject: |
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Good response Zyf.
I agree about the basic point you make.
I was just following the side discussion that started in this thread.
As for the OP needing help, what help can he get from an online discussion forum when he is in jail or detained or under lawful punishment?
What nice thing is there to say here?
Its all going to work out...
Bust out..guns blazing!
All we can do is hope the OP manages to wiggle out of this bad spot and learns from it. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:22 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Homer"]As for the OP needing help, what help can he get from an online discussion forum when he is in jail or detained or under lawful punishment?
What nice thing is there to say here?[/quote
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This happened to me a while back and the basic situation was that the wonjangnim had to go to immigration and get a stiff talking to, argue a bit and then pay a whopping fine. There was 2 of us at the institute both working while we waiting for the school to process E2s. We were fined too but the school covered it.
There's not really much reason for immigration to listen to .... you were working illegally and thats the end of it.
If you have actually applied for the E2 (which was what had happened in our case) i don't think they will send you to jail. If you haven't submitted the paperwork with immigration then they might be a bit less lenient. |
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Do some privates to get the cash, seriously, it can't get much worse that it'll be, perhaps pm rapier, he talked about having extra work to pass around, and was looking for a roommate too.
But, seriously, apply to a job in China. They will provide the airline ticket. Do a year there. You can save a thousand or two, and live well enough. Your only snag is your passport, which I dunno what you can do about: maybe apply through your embassy to get a new one? Or does the Korean bureaucracy speak to your consulate about deportation procedures?
You may even be able to be honest and forthright with your prospective Chinese employer, given the desparate demand there, and the Korean government could deport you there on your Chinese employer's dime? Sounds possible. |
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Happened to me. My boss had applied for the paperwork but it hadn't arrived yet. They took photos of me through the handy classroom windows teaching alone (I figured they were nosy prospective parents!)
Then I got summoned out of class and immigration had a brief chat with me. Luckily my boss got to talk to me first, and he told me that I'd only been there for a week and I was observing clases. So that's what I told immigration.
As soon as immigration left I carried on teaching as normal.
A couple of days later I had to go for an interview with them again. My boss translated for them, so he told them whatever he wanted me to be saying. Basically that I had only been observing classes not teaching blah blah. We all knew this was a lie.
He paid a bribe, and took all the immigration guys out to lunch.
He paid a fine of 2m won (I imagine half of that might have been for me and half for him.. I don't know).
They refused to give me my visa issuance papers until I'd left the country. So I went to Japan, then the boss went to immigration and rushed my documents through with the help of another bribe. The next day he came to Japan and we went to the Korean consulate together with the visa issuance papers etc. Then we went and did touristy stuff the rest of the day, and went back to Korea the next.
Sorted.
Nothing bad happened to me.. I got to miss 10 minutes of class and got an extra 2 nights in Japan. |
| Quote: |
IMO, Gwangjuboy has some good advice, quoted above. Emphasis on the 'calm, apologetic front'. The two rockers who stripped on live TV then covered their faces after being arrested. Koreans expect 'criminals' to be remorseful. Note the guy who landed in jail and then got more time for acting up. Not a good role model.
I think I'd talk to your new boss and try to get a feel for how he plans to deal with this. Is he going to stand by you or sell you down the river. If the latter, then consider the advice about China. |
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I got busted in nearly the exact same situation over 2 years ago. I'm sorry I just saw this thread, but I've been away from much of Dave's the past few days....
I got busted working on my 2nd day without my E-2. I also was planning to go to Japan the next week, and even had the ticket stub to prove it. I had given my boss the papers, and she was SUPPOSED to have given them to immigration, and even LIED to me about it, but HADN'T (even though she'd said she had). She already had my degree, etc., and she immediately produced them when immigration showed up, much to my shock.
I have told the story about getting busted SO MANY TIMES on here, I'll skip to the information the OP wants to know.
1. They tried to bribe my school on day 1. Bribe was for over 3 million won. My director said NO!
2. They took my passport (drove me home in a van to get it) and I was told I would be called for a "meeting" later in the next week. I was busted on a Tuesday, and got called on Thursday for the Friday meeting, if memory serves. Was told DO NOT WORK AT ALL.
3. Went up to floor #2 of immigration with my boss, into the room on the left, followed by another immediate left. The meeting was with a Korean who spoke ZERO english. His name was Seung Min. I have seen others on here refer to him before, as well.
4. They fined me the minimum of 500,000 won. They fined my boss something like 3 million in total, I think. Another foreinger was here as well, and he was fined the same (the boss lied and said he'd been there less than a week, but he had been there 4 months).
5. They gave me an "exit order" to leave the country. I could leave and come back the same day, but it was essentially like another 600,000 won fine, because I had to pay this plane ticket myself.
6. I could no longer work for that hagwon... not for at least 6 months to a year (I forget whether it was 6 months or a year). That was the immigration rule. It didn't matter to me anyway, because I didn't want to see that hagwon again, unless it was in the sites of a grenade launcher when no kids were present.
7. I was told, "You might not get another E-2... you can apply, but it depends on the agent as to whether or not they decide to give you one."
8. I applied a week later with the help of a recruiter and a new school, and flew to japan again, etc. If I had applied myself, I think they would have said no. The Korean recruiter really worked for me in this situation. My new E-2 was a 6 month probationary E-2. That basically screwed me out of a severence if I planned to stay with that school for a year, because the contract was for 6 months. I was in no position to be negoting future severence at the time -- believe me. I was just thrilled I found a decent school quickly.
9. I was told by immigration that if I had not had an apartment with the school, they would have outright deported my butt. The fact that my school had me in a paid apartment proved to them that their intention was indeed to get me the E-2, I suppose.
I would say your situation is definately worse than mine. I just came off of a legal contract for one year, which I finished with zero difficulty. I think that bowed in my favor.
I'd say "good luck" to you on this one... I think you might want to be making arrangements to sell some stuff you really don't need. That is, if you're not living in an apartment paid for by the school. Frankly, i'm surprised you are not locked up.
Sorry, just being honest. |
Pretty much every other post on this thread is arguing about various semantics. Still, there was some useful advice from people who either experienced a similar situation or had some recommendations about what to do. |
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