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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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 Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 3:09 am Post subject: |
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| With all of my nit-picky concerns, he said just put it in the contract and I'll stand by my word...the original contract says stuff like this: |
Note the ease with which the boss is willing to change the contract. This is typical in Korea. Contracts simply do not mean what they mean in the West. A signed contract is not a guarantee of conditions for the length of the contract. They are a guarantee that you will be held to the terms, but the director is only held to the terms until he decides to change the terms. You will have very little to say about it. Changes can, but seldom do, benefit the teacher. Changes can, and almost always, benefit the school at your expense.
The ones telling you that you cannot just jump ship if things go south are right. It is possible, but usually quite difficult to change jobs. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:07 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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| With all of my nit-picky concerns, he said just put it in the contract and I'll stand by my word...the original contract says stuff like this: |
(1) Note the ease with which the boss is willing to change the contract. This is typical in Korea. (2) Contracts simply do not mean what they mean in the West. A signed contract is not a guarantee of conditions for the length of the contract. (3) They are a guarantee that you will be held to the terms, but the director is only held to the terms until he decides to change the terms. You will have very little to say about it. Changes can, but seldom do, benefit the teacher. Changes can, and almost always, benefit the school at your expense.
(4) The ones telling you that you cannot just jump ship if things go south are right. It is possible, but usually quite difficult to change jobs. |
(numbers are mine)
1. This is a UNSIGNED contract that the boss is willing to change. In other words he is willing to write a NEW contract. Nothing wrong with that or typical about Korea. Happens in the West too. Now if the boss was changing a SIGNED contract, then you would have a point.
2. I wouldn't be so absolute, but I can give you this point.
3. Should the director decide to change the terms, you do have some recourse. The labour board for one, or Korean friends for another.
4. Depends. If the boss is breaking a number of labor laws and you let him know that you know...and are willing to do something about it, nine times out of ten he will pull in his horns. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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1. This is a UNSIGNED contract that the boss is willing to change. In other words he is willing to write a NEW contract. Nothing wrong with that or typical about Korea. Happens in the West too. Now if the boss was changing a SIGNED contract, then you would have a point.
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Yes, I know it is the unsigned contract. I was trying to convey (and evidently failed to express myself clearly) that it doesn't always mean much what is in the contract. They are infinitely flexible, signed or not, especially when in the school's favor. It is not unheard of for a boss to promise the moon because he plans on changing it later anyway.
recourse: I still don't think so. At my last job I signed a contract to teach adults. There was to be down time in the summer. Boring but acceptable. The boss decided to add (free) kid classes during the downtime. I objected. There was nothing illegal about what he was doing. But I had rejected other offers because I don't like teaching kids. My only real recourse was to quit--entirely disrupt my life because he was changing the conditions that we had agreed to in the contract. |
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pegpig
Joined: 10 May 2005
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| RachaelRoo wrote: |
| I arrived in Korea jobless two days ago, and my problem was TOO MANY job offers to choose from. I have already found an outstanding position. |
You've been here 2 days and you selected a school already. A little hasty, no? I wouldn't be popping the champagne yet until you've at least started working at the alleged outstanding position. I'm not trying to burst your bubble, but I would imagine that most, if not all of us, believe we've signed a great contract, otherwise we obviously wouldn't have signed it, right? |
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keithinkorea
Joined: 17 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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Working in Korea can be stressful at times. The cultural differences between Western and Eastern business cultures are very different. Relationships are important and the OP having a hunch that it might be an OK job is fine.
Go with the hunch, have a positive attitude. But also dont take any bullcr@p either, some people get exploited up the wazzo because they're too weak in standing up for themselves, other teachers make stupid demands on their boss and think their ddong doesn't stink and make their boss' and co teachers lives a misery. Balance and diplomacy are important and that's why a lot of the younger teachers get shafted.
Relationships are very important in Korea so attitude, diplomacy and not being seen as either a doormat or an egotistical jerk will go a long way in securing a decent position. |
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nene
Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Location: Samcheok, Gangwon-do
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks Keith - that sounds reasonable and is refreshing. Thanks all for the postings - much appreciated. I'm going to take the job - my gut usually does me well, hopefully this is the same, and if worst comes to worst, it's not bad at all! Will find this thread in a few months and update... |
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Dan The Chainsawman
Joined: 05 May 2005
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| I say only trust a school as far as your bank balance can allow you. If you have airfare, and some set up cash set aside then feel free to be a bit more adventuresome. If not be damn careful that the first thing you do is make sure you put aside the funds needed to leave the country at a drop of the hat. This can range from 1000 to 3000 American dollars. Setting aside more than that seems to be only wise, but hey anymore and your sitting in front of you computer all day posting on dave's esl. |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Setting aside more than that seems to be only wise, but hey anymore and your sitting in front of you computer all day posting on dave's esl. |
HEY  I resemble that remark   |
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RachaelRoo
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Anywhere but Ulsan!
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:32 am Post subject: |
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| nene wrote: |
| Thanks Keith - that sounds reasonable and is refreshing. Thanks all for the postings - much appreciated. I'm going to take the job - my gut usually does me well, hopefully this is the same, and if worst comes to worst, it's not bad at all! Will find this thread in a few months and update... |
It sounds refreshing because it's what you wanted to hear. The job is easy, available, you already put effort into it (such as starting this thread). I dunno nene - I wish you luck, but I strongly urge you to reconsider.
Frankly, I don't understand this hohum give it a try attitude from many of the posters. This is Korea, land of the locked in contract and primitive visa slave system. It's also an English teachers market right now, making some of the others posts particularly irrational, in my opinion.
This "oh it won't be bad, I have a feeling" crap is not smart. I'm trying to think of a nice way to say that but there really isn't one. You are talking to a recruiter and a Korean Hogwon owner on the other side of the world (i think), that you've never met, who need a warm western body ASAP. How could your gut possibly be providing you with accurate information? I really do hope you are one of the randomly fortunate ones, but luck shouldn't be more of a factor than it has to be. There are so many jobs for us in Korea right now it's absurd.
Can I ask your age, location, and experience?
Please, it isn't too late to reconsider. |
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joe_doufu
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:01 am Post subject: |
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| RachaelRoo wrote: |
| Frankly, I don't understand this hohum give it a try attitude from many of the posters. This is Korea, land of the locked in contract and primitive visa slave system. |
I guess it's just me and keith versus this kind of opinion. I think the truth is there's no objective way to assure that your hagwon is a quality outfit, or that conditions won't change. That's why I believe intuition and a positive attitude are about all you've got to rely on here. I think the OP will be more or less just fine. |
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nene
Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Location: Samcheok, Gangwon-do
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| RachaelRoo wrote: |
| How could your gut possibly be providing you with accurate information? |
I've talked to a number of directors of schools and recruiters, and from some I get a feeling of them checking me out to see if I'm going to be subservient and there quickly, from some I get a total disconnected feeling, as though they really are just viewing me as a product. From this recruiter (RBI - at which I've talked to four people) I get a feeling of genuine concern, which has been backed up by posters here saying they got into a shitty situation and RBI helped them get out of it. From the director, I got a feeling of compassion; for eg. he has two appartments in Busan, one large and one small...he's going to move out of the larger one so that my girlfriend and I can live there. Maybe all four of the people at RBI are just really smooth talkers (though I consider my detection threshold for this sort of thing to be pretty acute) and maybe the director was lying and putting on a veil of compassion, but I'll apply Occom's (sp?) Razor here and say that most likely they are good people who want to make more money by upholding their reputation (in the age of prolific internet message boards and gray books).
Okay, there's my first need to defend myself on eslcafe...I wonder if there's a year of this to come  Oh, and I'm 25/m/US
All that said, I am thinking that if the jobs are as abundant as you all say, maybe we should just hop on a plane to Seoul. I suppose I could charge the ticket and pack up boxes for a friend to ship assuming it all works out. Can you check out the schools much better when you're there? Get better jobs by being there?
Uno mas question (again, thanks, you're all invaluable) - does my degree need to go thru a Korean consulate in the US? I have a notorized (by a US notary) copy and the original (which I don't feel too wierd mailing - can always get another one if worst comes to worse), but there's no consulate in my city, so it's going to be a big delay to send it to a consulate... |
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RachaelRoo
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Anywhere but Ulsan!
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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NENE SAID "All that said, I am thinking that if the jobs are as abundant as you all say, maybe we should just hop on a plane to Seoul. I suppose I could charge the ticket and pack up boxes for a friend to ship assuming it all works out. Can you check out the schools much better when you're there? Get better jobs by being there?"
This is the best way to do it. I just did, and my school is not only paying for my visa run to japan, but also compensating me for the ticket. You and yourgirlfriend can share a motel for a total of around $35,000W a night ($35/US). Set up interviews before you arrive and you'll find a good job in no time.
NENE ALSO SAID "Uno mas question (again, thanks, you're all invaluable) - does my degree need to go thru a Korean consulate in the US? I have a notorized (by a US notary) copy and the original (which I don't feel too wierd mailing - can always get another one if worst comes to worse), but there's no consulate in my city, so it's going to be a big delay to send it to a consulate..."
Degree copies do need to be notarized by the Korean consulate after they are notarized by a notary to be useable here. May as well mail it and have that available in case you need. |
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pegpig
Joined: 10 May 2005
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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It's always better to see the school first-hand. Always. But, if you come here first you will find some schools that are not willing to foot the bill for a round-trip ticket AND a visa run. So, you might have to be willing to eat one of those tickets as part of the cost of your job search. I'm pushing 40 and couldn't get schools to pay for a round-trip ticket - only return. You're 25, so they'll do almost anything for you.
It's too bad you don't have experience as my small one-foreigner school in Seoul is currently looking for someone with experience to start in September. |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:40 pm Post subject: I'm pushing 40 and couldn't get schools to pay for a round-t |
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I'm pushing 40 and couldn't get schools to pay for a round-trip ticket - only return. You're 25, so they'll do almost anything for you.
Im over 40 and never had any problem with getting them to pay for air and visa run. I had one school that told me that they wouldnt pay for my visa run and I told them cya...they changed their tune real quick after that. |
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Dan The Chainsawman
Joined: 05 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:36 am Post subject: |
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Quote:
Setting aside more than that seems to be only wise, but hey anymore and your sitting in front of you computer all day posting on dave's esl.
HEY Evil or Very Mad I resemble that remark Wink Laughing Laughing
hey wait a second so do i.... |
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