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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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 Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 5:06 am Post subject: |
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The mideast the way it is is the reason for AQ.
If the regimes elites clerics and media over there didn't teach hate and incite violence then there would be almost no terror
Most mideast states are police states , They control the elites , the media and the clerics. The security services of mideast regimes are all capable of crushing AQ in their nations w/o as much as breaking a sweat.
This explains it much better than I can so please understand.
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The "real reason" for this war, which was never stated, was that after 9/11 America needed to hit someone in the Arab-Muslim world. Afghanistan wasn't enough because a terrorism bubble had built up over there ?a bubble that posed a real threat to the open societies of the West and needed to be punctured. This terrorism bubble said that plowing airplanes into the World Trade Center was O.K., having Muslim preachers say it was O.K. was O.K., having state-run newspapers call people who did such things "martyrs" was O.K. and allowing Muslim charities to raise money for such "martyrs" was O.K. Not only was all this seen as O.K., there was a feeling among radical Muslims that suicide bombing would level the balance of power between the Arab world and the West, because we had gone soft and their activists were ready to die.
The only way to puncture that bubble was for American soldiers, men and women, to go into the heart of the Arab-Muslim world, house to house, and make clear that we are ready to kill, and to die, to prevent our open society from being undermined by this terrorism bubble. Smashing Saudi Arabia or Syria would have been fine. But we hit Saddam for one simple reason: because we could, and because he deserved it and because he was right in the heart of that world. And don't believe the nonsense that this had no effect. Every neighboring government ?and 98 percent of terrorism is about what governments let happen ?got the message. If you talk to U.S. soldiers in Iraq they will tell you this is what the war was about. |
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/US/06/04/nyt.friedman/ |
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death from above
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Location: in your head
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 5:44 am Post subject: |
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compelling argument, but i don't buy it.
for example, take the two most powerful middle eastern countries: Saudi Arabia and Egypt. they are both police states, yes, but they are both US sponsored police states.. we give egypt the most military aid of anyone in the world (along with israel), and we have had troops in saudi arabia for 15 years. that's why they are both at the top of Bin Laden's hit list. that we support these police states and then attack iraq to "spread democracy" is clearly hypocritical. it makes no sense whatsoever. that is why we are losing the ideological war. remember that the islamists fought the soviets in afghanistan for 10 years, al qaeda took appalling losses but they never admitted defeat.. and i see no signs of them losing their resolve in iraq.
make no mistake, we can crush any conventional military in the world.. but we are not fighting a conventional war. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 6:15 am Post subject: |
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But can the governments of Saudi Arabia and Egypt defeat Al Qadia within their own nations?
Besides it is more complicated than that. In Saudi Arabia those who support Al Qadia are often close to the government.
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A controversy brewing in Saudi Arabia is instructive. Several weeks ago, when the U.S. was gearing up for the assault on Fallujah, Salman al-Awdah, a popular preacher who had close ties to al Qaeda in the '90s, signed, along with 25 colleagues, a declaration that made fighting the U.S. in Iraq an obligation for able-bodied Muslims. This sly document left it an open question as to whether Iraqis and Saudis were equally obliged to fight. The authors of the declaration wanted to have it both ways--to garner the benefits of association with al Qaeda abroad without suffering any consequences at home.
But many Saudis have grown tired of this game, and are working to expose clerics for playing fast and loose with peoples' lives. The reformist newspaper al-Watan revealed that Mr. al-Awdah subsequently enlisted the aid of the Saudi security services in order to prevent his son Muadh from joining the jihad in Iraq. Muadh, it seems, had decided with some friends to go and fight America. "God permitting," he said in a message to his family, "we have an appointment with paradise." In an effort to prevent him from keeping this date, Mr. al-Awdah contacted Prince Muhammad bin Nayef, No. 2 at the Saudi ministry of Interior. The authorities quickly found the young men, and returned them safely to their families.
Mr. Al-Awdah's frantic call for help revealed two levels of hypocrisy. First, it shattered his carefully crafted image as a courageous fighter for Islam, a man who speaks truth to power. For someone supposedly independent of the regime, he has cozy ties with the Saudi secret police. Second, it unmasked his true feeling about the anti-American jihad: Let Iraqis kill themselves.
Mr. al-Awdah is today less concerned about fueling the jihad than he is about saving his reputation. He is quibbling over the details of al-Watan's report, claiming defamation and threatening a lawsuit. Al-Watan has responded by saying, in effect: Bring it on. If he dares to do so, Mr. al-Awdah may well find himself with more legal burdens than he cares to shoulder. The father of a Saudi boy who did in fact find his death in Iraq has gone to the media expressing his intention to sue Mr. al-Awdah and the other 25 clerics who issued the fatwa supporting the jihad. And to make matters worse, the government of Kuwait--a predominantly Sunni country--has banned the offending clerics from its soil. |
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110006014
And it not only that just two days ago Al Qadia's top man in Saudi Arabia was killed by Saudi security forces.
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Saudi Arabia says forces killed al-Qaida leader
In all, 6 suspected militants killed in raids in Riyadh and Medina
HUNT FOR AL-QAIDA
Updated: 10:30 a.m. ET Aug. 18, 2005
RIYADH, Saudi Arabia - Al-Qaida��s leader in Saudi Arabia was killed Thursday during clashes with police in the western city of Medina, the Interior Ministry said.
Saleh Mohammed al-Aoofi was among six al-Qaida militants reported killed during police raids on numerous locations in the holy city and the capital, Riyadh, security officials told The Associated Press. |
In Saudi Arabia if you want to go fight the Americans then the the government allows you to do it.
However if you start threatening the royal family or the stability of the country by attacking foreing workers then they send the security services and kill you.
The US doesn't fight a gurrilla war very well but the security services of mideast regimes are very effective within their own nations. |
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