Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Hater Depot]

http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/opinion/200508/kt2005083116460754060.htm

I think this guy hits the nail on the head. So many Koreans who speak English speak it as if they were in a Korean context. We've all had people ask us our age, etc., immediately; interacted with people who don't know how to be polite in English (when you stop the the car to drop me off you can't just say "OK, get out now."). And I don't mean people who don't speak much English. I mean people who are fluent in English yet make little effort to understand how I think.

When I speak Korean I don't act as if it were English--I exchange the vital information about age, etc., I don't say something is crazy even though that's fine in English, etc. So what is the deal with this failure to learn the culture of the language they study so much?

[BbBbRocks]

Some of this, at least, comes down to what has generally been conceeded as being a major difference between 'western' and 'eastern' thought processes. Western thought, having it's base in logic, tends to be linear and puts the emphasis on the individual when applied to a social context. Eastern thought, on the contrary, tends to be non-linear and puts the emphasis on the individuals place with a socitey or group, as these "I need to find out how old you are so I know whether or not to be polite to you" questions are perfect examples.

I experience this when the woman from my agency calls me to make one point and insists on making it twenty times, despite the fact that I've already told her I understand, which in a western setting would suggest that the case was closed.

In a sense, philosphy and belief play a large part of group mindsets, but it invariably boils down to one of those oh-so-tricky chicken and egg questions. Group mindsets also cough up some interesting questions when applied in an educational setting.

There's lots of stuff out there if you're bored and you know how to use Google.

Bon Ponderance,

Dennis

[Hater Depot]

Sure, everybody knows Eastern and Western mindsets are different. But my question is, why go to Canada and act as if you were in Korea and speaking with a Korean person? Those teachers wouldn't have accepted me walking into their homes without taking my shoes off.

[Tiny_Tibbo]

I think thats why I have to constantly bite my toungue with my supervisor.
She speaks english fluently and I become so confused when she says certain things in such a sweet tone that back at home would be extremely rude or disrespectful. However thats not her intention at all and when I treat it as such she is in complete shock. So i try my best just to ignore how she communicates and continue on with my job. but I did notice the constant repeating of something that was already discussed and closed. Like the other morning she pulled me away from what I was doing for a "meeting" which consisted of her telling me to do what we had discussed the day before. (which I was in the process of doing)..and then being dimissed...lol
well maybe thats more of a control issue..but i do find in meetings we agree what we will do, then its like she has to remind me one minute later what we decided to do, as if I didn't know or was going to do somethin else (even if it was my own sugestion) ....
I used to get offended, now i just try to pick my battles at work. I figure if she's been communicating with her husband in english for 10 years......its never going to change.....I rather save my energy for my two year olds.

[weatherman]

Koreans are very chauvinistic in pushing their culture, not onto you, but over you. You think you are having a fine conversation and then get bum rushed out of it by their m~asturbatory glees, lacking any kind of cross cultural understanding. See, Koreans don��t want to understand, they either want to win, or whine.

[NearlyKorean]

[HapKi]

[Yu_Bum_suk]

Interesting article. If Koreans could only realise some of the little things they could do to present themselves better life could go so much smoother for them. On the other hand, the same probably holds true for us much of the time.

'How not to make yourself look like an idiot in a Western country' would be a useful introductory lesson to teach anyone planning on going overseas.

[Ya-ta Boy]

[Naruto]

It has little to do with the language itself but their proficiency at it. If you're able to express exactly what you mean in the right words is a lot different from doing a straight translation from Korean to English which is what everyone does when learning a new language. Keep in mind as well that it's differences in culture mainly. There are plenty of things that Americans do that are viewed as rude and impolite in other countries as well. I think when we teach English we often times get hung up on English language and neglect the additional cultural teaching that should inevitably accompany it. For instance, if i'm doing a short practice of a typical American dinner table conversation, I'm also going to explain American dinner table ettiquette. There should always be some slice of cultural teaching going along with the actual language lesson. If people understand WHY one sentence appears rude over another even though they're both technically correct, it makes learning easier.

[Kimchieluver]

Way to go! That's a concept that nobody has ever thought of.

[merrilee]

http://www.whatthebook.com/book/0743255356?

[tomato]

Hello, Hater Depot!

Are you claiming that you act perfectly Korean around Koreans?
That's quite a bold claim!

Hello, Nearly Korean!

Your short-time co-worker would probably think Hawaiians are morons too.
The Polynesian word for hello and good-by is "aloha."
Ditto for Italians.
The Italian word for hello and good-by is "ciao."

But that doesn't matter. He doesn't sound like the kind that can fit in any foreign country.
For that matter, he probably can't fit in anywhere, period.

[Hater Depot]

I am not saying I act perfectly Korean. But I am saying that I try a lot harder than a lot of Koreans who study English, including a shocking number who go abroad to live and raise their children. And I'm wondering why there is this disconnect between the culture that these people interact with every day and their actual understanding of it (as well as their self-perception of their understanding).

It can't be that they don't have the opportunity; I'm talking only about people who are nearly fluent and/or live or have lived in an English-speaking country. And likely work with native English speakers every day.

It can't be that it's impossible. Plenty of foreigners come to Western countries and successfully adopt the language and culture without losing their own cultural identity. And this is my goal in Korea. And sure, different English-speaking countries have different cultures but the differences aren't THAT great. Behavior like that the author of the article described is difficult to believe, but happens frequently.

It could be that nobody is teaching them. But then you have to ask why nobody is teaching them. I often don't point out when someone has done something I perceive as rude because I suspect, probably rightly, that they would then perceive that as rude. And they certainly don't ask independently for advice.

I guess the most charitable explanation I can come up with is that they can't concieve of how differently Westerners do and think, because Korea is their world. It seems easy to stay in the bubble of Korean thought, just as it is to stay in the bubble of small-town American thought. But that still doesn't explain why daily interaction with Westerners and spending a lifetime studying English doesn't pierce that bubble.

The uncharitable explanation is that they see Korean thought and culture as superior, and therefore there is no need for them to act any other way. And frankly for some I'm sure this is true.

[peppermint]

I've heard quite a few Koreans say " I dont' want to learn that stuff- just teach me the language!"