Korean Job Discussion Forums

[bignate]

I wasn't going to post on this thread, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized that there is definite truth to the fact that the majority of the looting and violence is being perpetrated by blacks, and I do not find it racist, nor repulsive to post it. Black leaders around the country have stated that they are ashamed how some individuals are reacting to the disaster and only making it harder on themselves. Black People are looting, they are shooting at aid workers, at helicopters bringing in relief, there is no argument against this. But why?

I thought about this and have discussed it with friends, and not to apologize for any of the actions taken by these people, because, I would find it repulsive, and against all logic to shoot at someone trying to help me out of such a horrible situation. So what makes my logic so out of touch with those in New Orleans? Perhaps because I have never been forced to endure any such instance of extreme trauma or disaster as those in the poorer neighbourhoods of New Orleans.

I myself, sitting here with food, water, energy, a computer, cannot comprehend what is going through the minds of these people. It has been mentioned before, time and again, that the majority of NO is black and that that majority of these people are poor, very poor. Most of us, never see any other side of NO other than the party of Mardi Gras, or the culture of the French Quarter, but in all reality there is more than that - NO was a beautiful city, that covered up, as all big cities do, the ugliness of segregation and poverty. All over America, in all the big cities, if you turn down the wrong street at the wrong time, you are in trouble....because you don't belong there.

Poverty and marginalization breed hoplessness, they breed fear and contempt, and above all anger and hostilty. These people live on the verge of destruction all the time, in NO the majority of blacks are employed in the service industry, primarily related to tourism, which subsequently also means the most menial and low paying jobs. They have no way to escape their neighbourhoods (those that are now predominantly underwater) so they exist, not so much living, but existing. These neighbourhoods are not accidently segregated, there is a reason they are predominantly poor and black, because they are the worst, and most dangerous peices of land in the city........no one who can afford not to would live there.

Now, in the aftermath of the storm, any information that they hear in the news is how they have been neglected, marginalized, forced to live in areas dangerous to their health and safety, all of which is known by their government, and now they are paying for it. Fear, anger, rage, hostility, are all reactions to this sort of betrayal - they have had no recourse they have had no hope. They hear in the media how their supporters, and pundits have fought for years to have the levees replaced or repaired, how they have intentially been placed into dangerous living conditions by government supported and systematicly racist prerogatives of primarily rich white administrations.

Combine this with the exacerbating affect of the general abscence of many of the National Guardsmen who's primary job is in these situations to support and help the populace from which they are recruited from, and there is a general ill will towards anyone in the position of authority.

I don't think that these people are in anyway shape or form correct in the way that they exhibiting their anger and their distrust. I don't understand how anyone could react to help with violence, but I also have never been within a marginalized population nor had to deal with the violence that exists within a chronically and perpetually impoverished community. The people that are looting, and shooting, and raping - and not to say all are black - but those people have over the course of their lives learned and been conditioned to not give a shit about anyone other than themselves. They have learned that no one will take care of them - not their government, not their community, not their employers, not the police, and in some cases not even their own families. It is this in combination with the huge destruction of their neighbourhoods, the slow reaction of their government, along with the reaffirmation of their own leaders to the affect that no one cares about poor black people that breeds such a response.

[bucheon bum]

EFLtrainer: the epitomy of PC to the extreme.

[desultude]

I want to say that my objection is to the notion that the police deserted because they were black, that the chaos resulted from a black police force not doing its job, to assertions such as:

[dogbert]

[bucheon bum]

[Gwangjuboy]

[desultude]

What major urban area was hit by the tsunami? The earthquake? If Bombay had been hit, there probably would be little difference because for the poor it is a daily tsunami, and the lawlessness and inhumanity is continuous.

I still say that if a major urban area were hit by a disaster that rendered it completely lawless and uncontrolled, the same would happen. In some places, though, it would just be a continuation of the usual lawlessness, in places such as Rio, Bombay, etc.

You cannot compare the response of rural villagers to that of people in large urban areas. By the way, did you see reports of activities similar to those in New Orleans reported anywhere else in the Gulf states (and the areas hit are similarly largely black)? Why not? Well, you have a urban/rural comparison to make then, not a black/ white one.

When multiple hurricanes hit Florida, there was not damage to compare to Katrina, and Miami was not hit. I have had the thought about my hometown, Miami, getting hit by a Katrina type storm, and believe me, it would make New Orleans look like a picnic in the park.

Do you know what happened in Mumbai? I don't either. I suspect the violence on the ground in Mumbai on a daily basis is pretty gruesome.

Actually, by the way, I personally suspect that not enough was done to help New Orleans because A) This administration is collectively a bunch of totally out of touch multi-millionaire oil people, including Condi, and B) because the people left behind in New Orleans were poor and urban, thus not constituents who supported the above oil tycoons.

As an aside, I have argued (actually in publication, University of Chicago Press) that affirmative action as it is designed in the United States works to divide working and poor people and promote racism. It is really quite effective that way, if in no other way. The generations of poor whites in the United States, often in rural areas, are largely ignored by government policy (except for the rare time of the war on poverty in the 60's) and fed a steady diet of anti-black, anti-immigrant propaganda which is why there are the white militias, etc.

I come from a seriously poor white family, I grew up in the culture, and I understand how this stuff is generated.

[shakuhachi]

[dogbert]

I'd say that sums it up quite nicely.

[desultude]

[bignate]

But, I thought the whole point of your argument was the differences between races.....

I can't see there being much racial animosity existing within a homogeneous society of "ordinary middle class families." desultude had alluded to the fact that demographics and the differences between demographics was one of the reasons there was such a violent response. The fact of the matter is that New Orleans is a violent place, I would have no problem walking down the streets of Kobe, but bedamned of I would do the same thing alone in the affected sections of New Orleans.

It is horrible that these people feel it necessary to attack the very people who are trying to help them, it is wrong, and I do not support it. But there is a reason behind it, some of which I did discuss earlier.

[dogbert]

As an American, I'm ready to live in a society where people can be counted on to help each other a la Kobe, not rape and kill each other, a la New Orleans, and I'm tired of excuses. When more people get tired of excuses, maybe we'll start to see some efforts toward improvement.

[bignate]

As a human I am ready to live in such a society. I had a discussion with a freind of mine on that very subject.... Why not try to help one another? In fact I watched a news report of a BBC crew who went into one of the most devistated areas of the flood in a boat, the people there helped them to find a group or children who had been stranded in their house. The cameras showed the mother dead on her bed from respiratory complications.

The only white people in the whole segment were the cameraman and the reporter, yet they had little problems, but were welcomed and were pointed towards those that needed the most help, these children, a lady who was 6 months pregnant, with no water, and a 90 year old who was almost out of water.

There are thugs all over the place, and in poor neighbourhoods, where police tend not to be so vigilant, they are more prevalent than not. Cross this with the situational context of lawlessness and the mob mentality, and you get people who will turn to their most brutal, not because it is inherent in their nature, but because they have learned that the only way they can succeed is through violence and brutality.

It isn't a black problem, it is a societal problem.....

[Butterfly]

[Gwangjuboy]