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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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 Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:26 am Post subject: Is it time for the US to end its BS hatred for Cuba? |
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Being that:
a) Cuba hardly represents a threat to the US...
b) The US already does a huge amount of business with communist China..
c) Fidel's a pretty cool dude IMHO...
d) Cuban cigars are great...
e) The Cuban Missile Crisis was all the USSR...
f) Cuba offered aid, genuinely, to the poor victims of Katrina before our own government did..
Don't you think it's time to end it? Apparently, Castro's never going to die. Why not be friends instead of enemies?
All of you people who automatically side with the conservatives please educate me as to why we still don't have diplomatic relations with the closest country not connected to us.. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:51 am Post subject: |
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My answer to your question is "yes."
I wish Bush had taken Castro up on the docs, and used that as a mechanism to deescalate tensions.
| Pligganease wrote: |
a) Cuba hardly represents a threat to the US...
b) The US already does a huge amount of business with communist China..
c) Fidel's a pretty cool dude IMHO...
d) Cuban cigars are great... |
Good points. People have been making these points since Helms-Burton. American Airlines got lectured in one Senate hearing that business does not dictate foreign policy to the govt...
| Pligganease wrote: |
| e) The Cuban Missile Crisis was all the USSR... |
Be careful here. Castro was urging Khrushchev to use the weapons at one point...
| Pligganease wrote: |
| f) Cuba offered aid, genuinely, to the poor victims of Katrina before our own government did... |
I think his offer was sincere and should have been accepted.
| Pligganease wrote: |
Don't you think it's time to end it? Apparently, Castro's never going to die. Why not be friends instead of enemies?
All of you people who automatically side with the conservatives please educate me as to why we still don't have diplomatic relations with the closest country not connected to us... |
Several factors explain this: historical resistance to Castro as a Communist, and as an extremely vocal anti-U.S. force, something that has not gone away, incidentally;
...also look into the disproportionate influence the Cuban exile community has over this foreign policy issue (they are the ultimate source of the hatred, per se); and
...we haven't had diplomatic representation in Havana since early 1961, when Eisenhower suspended relations. We have an "interest section" as do they in Washington. But it isn't the same thing. Starting up relations again will be politically costly to whoever does it.
I was disappointed (but not surprised) that Bush did not seize this opportunity to improve the relationship.
For more on Castro and U.S.-Cuban relations, see...
The Closest of Enemies -- former chief of the U.S. interest section
Castro's Cuba, Cuba's Fidel -- Castro in his own words, this is a very sympathetic treatment of him
Latin America in the Era of the Cuban Revolution -- historical treatment U.S.-Cuban relations in Latin America
Conflicting Missions -- historical treatment U.S-Cuban-Soviet relations in Africa
...my personal favorite books on the subject. |
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funplanet
Joined: 20 Jun 2003
Location: The new Bucheon!
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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The title of the thread is misleading....the US does not have hatred for CUBA....the USG has hatred for CASTRO....
there is a difference, ya know
but yes.....I agree.....flooding the country with US businesses, $, and tourists would probably hasten the decline of Senor Castro...
but as long as the Cubans in Miami have enough power it ain't gonna happen |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: Is it time for the US to end its BS hatred for Cuba? |
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Being that:
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| a) Cuba hardly represents a threat to the US... |
Ok
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| b) The US already does a huge amount of business with communist China.. |
China is more important. Each case is different
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| c) Fidel's a pretty cool dude IMHO... |
The guy is a bearded gangster. The guy wanted the USSR to nuke the US. The guy oppressed his own people and supported violent groups all over central Ameircan and other places. You are an appologist for Castro.
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| d) Cuban cigars are great... |
Never had one
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| e) The Cuban Missile Crisis was all the USSR... |
That is false.
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| f) Cuba offered aid, genuinely, to the poor victims of Katrina before our own government did.. |
they offered aid probably for PR purposes as much as any reason.
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| Don't you think it's time to end it? Apparently, Castro's never going to die. Why not be friends instead of enemies? |
Yes I do think it is time to end it. Castro is a Jerk but is no longer a strategic enemy of the US any more.
In that Castro surived US attempts to overthrow him he won.
In that he pretty much falied to export his revolution to other nations - except for Venezula (after the cold war) - the US won.
The final score is a tie.
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All of you people who automatically side with the conservatives please educate me as to why we still don't have diplomatic relations with the closest country not connected to us.. |
the Cuba embargo is a waste of US political and diplomatic captial which the US could put to better use.
However the US doesn't have to trade or have diplomatic relations with any country it doesn't want to. However the Cuba embargo ought to end cause even though Castro is a creep , it doesn't do the US any good.
The US has more important things to do that contain Castro who isn't a threat to the US any more.
The US ought to offer to end the embargo in exchange for Castro cutting any ties or support he gives to FARC. |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| funplanet wrote: |
| but as long as the Cubans in Miami have enough power it ain't gonna happen |
Right, Jeb's buddies. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| look into the disproportionate influence the Cuban exile community has over this foreign policy issue |
| funplanet wrote: |
| but as long as the Cubans in Miami have enough power it ain't gonna happen |
Precisely. The Cuban voting bloc in Florida keeps Presidents from relenting on Castro. Win Castro over and you lose Florida in the election. That being said, I'll be the fourth of four Americans on this thread to agree that the USG's hatred towards Castro is BS. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:31 am Post subject: |
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Welcome to the realities of electoral politics. The swing vote in a key swing state...
To be profoundly original...Politics is not about what is right or wrong, but about what is politically possible. Would you rather be right or be president? |
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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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| Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 7:12 am Post subject: |
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It's not hatred. It's just a strong dislike.  |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:31 am Post subject: |
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No one in 99.99% of the world are going to say the US should have a ban on Castro's Cuba.
Just about everyone else on this thread pinned the tail on the donkey. Cubans vote Republican. Jed and George are Republicans. Florida is a swing state.
(I guess I'm the 5th of 5 Americans or 6th of 6 Americans who say the Cuba embargo is BS)? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:15 am Post subject: the Cuban Exile Community... |
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I don't recall their names anymore, but several of the Congressmen on Burton's foreign affairs committee were Cuban exiles from Miami.
Another important legislator (from New Jersey) was dependent on Cuban votes as well. Can't remember his name either.
The Cuban exiles do more than influence presidential elections with their well-organized voting bloc in Southern Florida. They're in Congress, on strategic committees, directly influencing foreign policy. They're a force in U.S. politics.
And they have no tolerance whatsoever for Castro. They tend to get extremely hysterical. They're dangerous. |
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Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
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| Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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In that Castro surived US attempts to overthrow him he won.
In that he pretty much falied to export his revolution to other nations - except for Venezula (after the cold war) - the US won. |
Well put. And who knows how long Venezuela will be anti-US after the love affair with Chavez finally dies down?
I don't see why we have to agree with the way governments are run to have relations with them. China and Vietnam are nominally communist and America trades with them. Cuba is hardly a political or economic threat to the US; why not the same detente America had with other communist nations? The cynical answer is that yes, it must simply be nothing more than obstinacy and the exile vote.
The answer is usually that Castro nationalized (seized) US commercial interests. Hard to feel sorry for capitalists who treated the island as another colony to exploit, if that's so. And after 45 years it's time to give the animosity a rest.
Another question: why doesn't Cuba try to obtain atomic weapons? The international community is sure quick to bring aid and attention to other two-bit communist nations who threaten neighbors, no names given, why not Cuba?
Ken:> |
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death from above
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Location: in your head
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| Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| plus Cristal is really good beer. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| ...he pretty much falied to export his revolution to other nations... |
I missed this earlier, Joo.
What about the Sandinistas? El Salvador's FMLN nearly won, only a very politically costly program of U.S. military aid prevented that. Several Latin American states (namely Argentina and Chile) are, in one way or another, still dealing witht the consequences of the era of the Cuban Revolution (and reaction). Castro also did a hell of a lot of damage in Africa... |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:37 am Post subject: |
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Hundreds of doctors with backpacks loaded with medications meet in in the Karl Marx theater Wednesday, Sept. 7, 2005, in Havana, Cuba.
More than a week after Cuba first offered to send physicians to the United States to aid in relief efforts for the victims of Hurricane Katrina, President Fidel Castro and his doctors still await an answer from the U.S. State Department.
The offer places Havana's old foe, the U.S. government, in an uncomfortable situation: either accept help from a nation it has characterized as an 'outpost of tyranny' or risk being accused of putting politics before the lives of its own people.
(AP Photo/Jorge Rey) |
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soviet_man
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:36 am Post subject: |
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| All of you people who automatically side with the conservatives please educate me as to why we still don't have diplomatic relations with the closest country not connected to us.. |
I'm the extreme opposite to being a conservative, but I oppose the establishment of US-Cuba diplomatic relations.
Fundamentally, there is a powerful argument to make that Cuba does not need free-market economics; the US cultural agenda; religionists or capitalistic profiteering. It doesn't need to be integrated into the US war machine or be exploited by bourgoise American tourists.
Cuban defectors living in Florida are themselves a by-product of US imperialism.
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c) Fidel's a pretty cool dude IMHO...
The guy is a bearded gangster. The guy wanted the USSR to nuke the US. The guy oppressed his own people and supported violent groups all over central Ameircan and other places. You are an appologist for Castro. |
I am also pro-Fidel. But if he can be critisized for anything, it is that he hasn't gone even further ideologically with building socialism. |
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