Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Real Reality]

An online job agency, Joblink Co., surveyed 1,000 personnel officers at local firms early this month; 600 of them said they would not recruit older workers because other workers feel uncomfortable working with them.

The seniority system in local companies gives benefits to those who have remained loyal, logging in years of service. But it serves as a disadvantage to the same workers who are laid off just prior to retirement in order to cut down on company pension costs. These senior workers have difficulty finding other jobs because it is nearly impossible for the older worker to start from scratch.

Some companies have introduced new systems to challenge the old seniority system. Kookmin Bank started a new grading system in 2001, in which former branch office heads showing weakening performances might be demoted, often having to work for their former juniors. The bank demoted 292 branch office heads through this system last year. The employees had received a 20 percent cut in their salaries. The demoted workers were allowed to return to their former posts only if they produced excellent performance records.

"Most older workers choose to be demoted rather than laid off," a former Kookmin branch office head said. "I went back to my position as branch office director a year after being demoted to vice director." The former head of the branch office said it was hard at first to accept the demotion. "But it was reasonable because the reasons for my demotion were quite clear."

Woori Bank is considering a system in which workers' salaries would be capped at the peak of their performance, based on a company-derived average, generally falling between their late 40s to early 50s. After this, workers� wages would be determined on a merit basis, based on their individual productivity. But the Korean Confederation of Trade Unions said this system would only give greater excuse for companies to cut salaries.

http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200306/13/200306130109253309900092309231.html

[Morning Calm]

This is a good post and something I'm surpised many people in here do not address with you. Although we have certain laws that protect us in the west, we have laws which screw us equally. In Korea however, the cultural law protects the elders and it alot more human than what we do to our senior staff.

After the industrial period in America, it was the way of life to get an entry-level position, work hard, honest, and with good intention, get promoted, retire, sit back, and watch your grandchildren play in the back yard. As long as you worked with these principals, the company learned to trust your loyality and took care of you. In turn, you learned to trust your company at the same time. Things evolved. These days, employees are whores on contracts. Get the job done and then look for your next job. Companies too, are looking for the cheapest and already most trained individual. Before companys would "invest" in the employee. Offer them training packages, education benifits, health club membership, family dental plans, etc. But companies know that this is dumb because they can hire someone else who already has this. They now expect the employee to come assembled, batteries included, and ready to work, and very disposable without baggage.

In Korea however, they are not developed like this but the western capitalistic systems are creaping into the minds of the greedy corporate CEO's. This goes against the confustion cultural and I'm excited to see how this will develop. Hopefull it will turn into something that we westerners can learn from.

ESL market is a different subject entirely.

[kylehawkins2000]

There is certainly a debate over wheter people should be rewarded for their productivity or for their seniority. Honestly, if people were simply rewarded for their seniority wouldn't this be a real flaw in a truly captilistic society? Isn't productivity what increases the profit of the company? An organization that pays based on seniority vs. productivity is treading in dangerous waters in my opinion.

I think of the teachers unions back home. Sure, when entering the profession you like the idea that you will have job security and guaranteed pay increases and retirement contributions every year, but we are left being unable to clear out the dead wood. There are too many old teachers who are on the edge of senility plugging away with the same programs and methodologies they used 30 years ago. They are unaccountable for the most part becuase their seniority gaurantees them a position at a very good rate of pay. With out pay, or incentives based on productivity, or at least on quality, their is no reason for them to change from what is easy and familiar to them.

Please note I'm playing a bit of a devil's advocate here. Just wanted to point out the other side of the story.

[Morning Calm]

Point taken Kyle, now let's give you a real situation that I've seen and I would like to know your honest option. There is this American guy who came in 1995 to Korea, nearly a ESL pinoneer if you will. He blazed the trail to an rural area of Korea, established good relationship with his employer, his working environment, and his community. He learns Korean and meet a local girl, gets married, and continues to be not only a great teacher, but a great asset to the school. Every year, his salary is increased based on his experience and the changing market trends. After many years, his salary is close to 3.0 million. He's ability to teach has not changed, nor improved, but everyone still loves him and his is a firm part of the identity of the school. Due to the changing market, many hagwons are established and now surround this small school in this rural part of Korea. Enrollment is decreasing and the school must downsize the number of teachers it has. The director looks at his finacial report and looks very seriously at this older, mature, but experience teacher that he is paying 3.0 million for. He glances at his emails and see many recruiting agencies advertising New Zealand teachers for 1.6 million. He understand that he could save 16,800,000 won in one year by letting this teacher go and hiring a new young teacher.

What would you say to this Kyle?

[kylehawkins2000]

It's a tough call man.

Like I said, I was just playing devil's advocate. I would have a hard time letting the guy go. It is a unique situation here in Korea however where the contracts run for just a year and Hogwans are free to keep or release employees on an annual basis.

Luckily, someone with this kind of experience and connections in Korea should have little trouble finding a position that will reward him well for his work. If he is married to a Korean he has extra options as well, becuase of the visa status.

I probably couldn't find it in my heart to let him go....but from a business standpoint I guess I would have to consider it.....

tough call though I'll admit.

[Morning Calm]