Korean Job Discussion Forums

[The Kung Fu Hustle]

I'm 3 classes out of 6 on a suddenly hot day at out a/c-less hagwon. So far I've been dong-chimmed, stabbed in the *beep* (with a finger) and mouth (with a pencil), been called a kae saekki, beaten uncountably and spent the entire three hours chasing around kids who won't sit down, etc etc etc.


These kids have to work so much. They're under so much pressure from their parents and schools, I tell myself, that when they get a loophole (like a teacher who can't rat them out to their parents because of a communications barrier) of course they'll exploit it. No harm, no malicious intent, just kids saving up everything we would normally spread out over a whole childhood into one single concentrated act of profane energy every English class.


Then there's the miniature devil perched on the other shoulder, who wants to enact some kind of revenge on these kids. Who fantastizes about these kids' future lack of employability and social skills. In ten years time, if I see a Korean kid aged 22 overseas I think I'll give him hell, because I'll know exactly what he did do his foreign teachers.

[Yu_Bum_suk]

I swear the hogwans help ruin the kids - especially the hogwans with foreign teachers. I'm now at a high school where most of the students have never had a foreign teacher before, and what a change of attitude. You know those rare kids who are so wonderful you'd teach them for free? I have a bunch I'm teaching for free after lessons end just because they're so eager to learn. I know not all hogwans are scams, but the one I was at seemed to ruin a lot of kids by teaching them they could get away with being a complete jackass just because their parents had money to waste.

[EFLtrainer]

[Freezer Burn]

Also in regards to respect, an Asian teacher is given respect autonomously, while we fight most of our contract to be given the same respect.
Would our students in the west do the same, sure, if the teacher had earned it, you knew the teachers at school that were easy to get away with pulling crap in class, and you knew the ones that you would have to tow the line with.
I was talking to my co-teachers about her failure to take my delieverence of punishment on her class seriously, the students were told that they didn't have to do the foreign teachers punishment, while she dished out the whacks on the hand for no homework, so what else do Korean teachers tell the students when your not there.

[livinginkorea]

To be honest I think a lot of it is to do with the foreign teacher. Go to any hagwon and the kids are going crazy but walk into a real school and they are totally different. The foreign teacher isn't used to controlling kids and getting them to be quiet and they can drive anybody crazy, as most of us have experienced.

After my first job, where the kids did run around like crazy, I decided that in order for me to survive in Korea as a teacher I really have to kick their ass and show them that FOREIGN TEACHER = ENGLISH STUDY and not fun and games.

Now I work in an elementary school and you can see the difference between the ones that study in hagwons and the ones that don't. The ones that are used to foreign teachers and their classes say rude things to me and expect me to laugh it off, but I don't. I've seen Korean teachers teaching their own class and eventhough the students are noiser than a class back home, it's still ten times better than some foreign teachers' classes.

If all the foreign teachers got more strict in their classes then some kids and parents wouldn't see us as a joke.

[Alias]

[livinginkorea]

[Ya-ta Boy]

I see it as a combination of factors.

Classroom control is a major lesson new teachers have to learn for themselves. It is difficult to learn and exhausting. Lots of people never learn how. Those were the teachers who quit after one or two years or who hung on and the students ran circles around them.

As difficult as that is, it is no help whatsoever to have a Korean teacher undercut your authority by telling students they don't have to accept the foreign teacher's punishments.

A second obstacle is this obsession with turning us into party coordinators. That is silly and a waste of everyone's time. It gives the kids the wrong impression and gives us headaches both from having to come up with suitable games as well as the more chaotic classroom atmosphere.

In short, an already difficult situation is made unnecessarily worse by an idiot co-worker and a stupid 'educational' attitude.

[sarahsarah]

[livinginkorea]

[just because]

My hagwon is golden...6 student max classes..

I had 6 classes today, never had to even raise my voice onc as I have them well trained now and they work excellently in my classes...

I think a big factor is the foreigners lack of ability in classroom control, especially the newbies, you can see it and they just ask me, how do you do it...

You have to get tough(but kind at the same time), takes about a month to break them in and get used to it but after that your year will be a lot better...it is diferent with every class where the line is, you just have t know where to draw the line.....

At my last hagwon i had 15 kid classes and I had all but one of them toeing the line after a month, some foreigners here are useless at controlling children full stop....

[sarahsarah]

[Yu_Bum_suk]

I do think that the type of institution makes all the difference. When a supervisor can't give you a clear answer to whether you can take their handphones away and then just says 'oh, I don't think that would be a good idea', you know you're pretty screwed. If a hogwan's entire MO is BSing to the parents you're also starting off on an unlevel playing field.

But I also agree that some people are more suited for class control than others, and the age of the students makes a huge deal - some people are just better with some ages than others.

[manlyboy]

I've been advised that I should peg my discipline level a notch or two below the discipline level applied by the respective classes' homeroom teachers (elementary school). It would be an affront apparently, if I disciplined them more strictly than their main teacher does. I find that fair enough, and it makes my job easier not having to worry about how hard I should come down on students.

The problem of course, is that groups with lazy or inept homeroom teachers get lower quality English lessons because I have to waste time managing their behaviour and don't have the leverage to punish them accordingly.

At my school, good homeroom teacher equals 40 minute English lesson; Not so dedicated homeroom teacher equals 20 minute English lesson, and 20 minutes of behaviour management.

[EFLtrainer]

You all make excellent points about the discipline issue. I have always believed and advise/train new teachers that your two best defenses in running an effective classroom are a good lesson plan and good classroom management. I was addressing more the underlying issues, so I dropped the ball on that point.

And, yes, if the administration won't *let* you discipine, you've got precious little at your disposal other than creating lesson plans that are entertainingly effective, which bring you back to being the "game" teacher, in a sense... but *is* something you should be striving for if you want to have motivated students... chicken/egg....

And we always need to monitor ourselves for consistency. A lack of consistent application of whatever behavior mod system you have is bound to cause it to fail.

But, in a nutshell, no, it's not the students. In the end you are the teacher and are paid to find a way around whatever challenges there are. Sometimes it requires compromising your ideals a bit, sometimes going with th flow, sometimes just becoming a better teacher than you were before. And once in a great while it means sticking to your guns.

God give me the wisdom to know the difference...