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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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 Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:24 am Post subject: Re: ... |
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[quote="Nowhere ManThe cheap shot is you pretending the criticism isn't real or valid.[/quote]
Dude, you da man!!! I was going to point out that it is gopher alone who cannot understandmy posts and the points I make, but knew he'd just say I was being (insert adjective here.) Even his defender, whose name I cannot for the life of me remember just now (probably the late hour and the beer while finishing a novel), obviously understood me, but came to gopher's rescue.
Distilled.... absolutely 100 percent distilled. Awesome. (Why am I writing like a valley girl?) |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:36 am Post subject: |
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[deleted]
Last edited by Gopher on Sat Jun 10, 2006 11:16 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:58 am Post subject: |
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Do not, I repeat DO NOT read gopher's previous post if you value your IQ!!! But, here I'll wade into it because my IQ be damned!! If I'm stupid enough to be an EFL teacher, my IQ is as low as it's going to get until Alzheimer's hits!! (Or a lot more beers, whichever comes first!)
| Gopher wrote: |
| Yeah, I know. You have no tolerance for a lot of things. It's probably your mother's fault. Did she never say "no" to you as a child? |
No name calling!!! Thus spake gopherthustra!!
| Gopher wrote: |
Look, first of all, on Bush's culpability: I'll refer you to my first and last post's on p. 4 of this thread.
I'm ready to ammend that and add to it: it is no longer disputed that the govt was slow in responding to this. It could have responded faster, but only with the President's leadership. He failed to provide that leadership when it was needed, and I fault him for that. |
*Have you lost your everlovin' mind?* Because he was on vacation and his leadership (*cough* *hack* *spit* *hack*) was absent???
DUDE!!!! Smell the coffee!! Snort the coke!!! WAKE UP!!!! CLUE to YOU: If he had NOT subsumed FEMA into Homeland (*cough* Heil Hitler!!!) Insecurity (<-- sorry, on a roll and having fun), had NOT appointed a buddy, then his buddy's buddy to be the heads of FEMA (have you noticed how well-spoken, articulate, intelligent, and commonsensical the FORMER FEMA heads are??), and had NOT shortcutted (is this a word?) disaster relief for the funding of counter(?)-terrorism, (PAY ATTENTION NOW CAUSE THIS IS NOT TRICKY (<-- sacasm fully intended - and let me know if the punctuation is too much) it would not have mattered if he was on vacation. Why? Because FEMA used to be a cabinet position and DIDN'T NEED A REQUISITION to TAKE A PEE!!!
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| This is easily explained by, like I've said previously, Bush's refusal to believe that natural disasters and weather problems are real. He seems to think that it's a trick someone from "the other side" is trying to play on him to change his rigid views on global warming, etc. |
You are SO naive. Bush could give a damn. Get it? He ahs one, and only one, mision in life: avenge my poppa!!! He was embawassed in Iwaq and I hab to sabe him!!
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| On the "cronyism" you guys are conveniently citing now. Why didn't you attack the FEMA director's qualifications before? I'll tell you why: it wasn't really that important to you. |
WHY? Jane, you ignorant..... Because FEMA never FAILED LIKE THIS BEFORE AND NOONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD EXPECT SOMEONE WITH ZERO EXPERIENCE to be made head of the (former) department! THAT'S why!
Ah, but I'm a liar. I've told you over and over I was not looking for anything Bushy when I started this thread. Why would I suspect EVEN BUSH of such stupidity? Why would I assume that even he would not know enough to appoint disaster officials to disaster positions???????
Ah, but I lie.
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| Don't do any real work, though, because everything comes down to politics and partisan attacks. |
Please explain what "real work" there is to do with regard to Katrina?? You'd have to be pretty damned blind...
Ah, but we're also LAZY. Funny, just a short time ago we were RABID[sic] ([sic] necessary so gopher will know I'm not literally saying he said I was rabid). Funny, that....
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| That's what's wrong with everything in Washington, and people like you and EFL Trainer (Ahem! It's EFLtrainer.) are not part of the solution but very much a part of the problem. Too indignant and righteous, though, to see that. |
Get a clue: it's probably already too late. My analysis is that we have already passed the point of no return, but on the chance that isn't the case, America and the rest of the world MUST wake up. We cannot allow another Republican/right wing ascendancy. The world is dying. Call me what you will, but if I didn't believe it, I wouldn't be saying it. And, no, I have not always felt this way. And, no, I do not feel this way because of conspiracy BS. I feel this way, I think this way, because I *have* read, watched, studied. Read "Chaos: the making of a new science", "The Rise And Fall of the Great Nations" and "the Great Depression of 1999" for just a hint of the crap we are in for. Then just look at the news on the environment, the instability aroubnd the planet, etc. Add to all of that the huge push given by the actions and inaction of the last eight years....
We are in severely deep doodoo.
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Should the FEMA director be fired for this and replaced with a career professional (or someone else)?
I don't know. Here's the issue as I see it:
Should an elected president have the prerogative to place his or her people in leading positions throughout the bureaucracy? or should any president be limited in his or her policy choices by a bureaucracy that provides it's own leadership, through experience, promotion, and bureaucratic politics?
This issue came up, and is heavily studied, in the Missile Crisis and the Vietnam War. |
Dude, you would overintellectualize (and people say I'm bad) a stubbed toe. HE SCREWED UP. You screw up, you get fired. He is incompetent. You are confusing whether Bush should have the right to appoint with whether or not he appointed a competent person. Hint: He did not.
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| FEMA, I am fully aware, is not the JCS or the FBI. But when there are States of Emergency, it is a hell of a lot more powerful than either of them. |
Was. I am not up on FEMA's powers before HInsecurity, and am quite sure the power needed to be curtailed in some respects, but as to the basic processes of emergency management, Bush - and those idiots who went along with - him are guilty as hell of manslughter, IMNSHO, for what happened as a result of their ego driven, stupid creation of HInsecurity and the resulting diminishment of FEMA's ability to handle Katrina.
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| It's not so simple as Katrina (and the anger surrounding it) makes it appear... |
You know what? Sometimes it is. Forest for the trees. Sometimes it's enough to see the forest. Sometimes it's absolutely necessary.
Last edited by EFLtrainer on Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
EFL Trainer: you and your little dysfunctional buddy are in an extremely small minority in the United States, according to a CNN/gallup poll released this Tuesday...
...Not surprising at all that such a small minority makes up such a vocal part of this forum...in any case, your views are apparently marginal. |
Well, gosh, THAT'S logical!!! Because, ya know, the Majority is ALWAYS right, which is why there are THREE branches of government, and TWO houses of congress... ...and, sadly and undemocratically, the Electoral College... because that majority need never be feared!!!
Your head is so focused on "facts" you have no room for logic and end up contradicting yourself because of it. "We must use facts!! The Facts, the whole set of facts, and nothing but the facts!!! Unless, of course, we want to condone mob rule to win a point in an on-line argument and ignore the fact that the majority is often wrong. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:15 am Post subject: |
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[deleted]
Last edited by Gopher on Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:46 am; edited 2 times in total |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Not surprising at all that such a small minority makes up such a vocal part of this forum...in any case, your views are apparently marginal. |
Yo, dude, the word you meant was marginalized. And don't bother coming back saying you meant what you wrote. marginal in this context would mean not worth a damn, while marginalized would mean out of the mainstream and ignored.
Go ahead, try. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Dude, you and your brother belong more in the freakiest wayguk-in thread than anywhere else... |
I object! Unresponsive!!! (I have got to get myself into a court room...) |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:26 am Post subject: |
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Actually, Gopher, the more I read about it the more I am convinced that Nowhere Man and EFLTrainer are on the mark (although EFLTrainer's personal attacks are marring his aim).
Yes, granted, New Orleans wants to be a swamp, and reclamation efforts have been heavy over the last century.
Yes, true, far too many Americans live near the Coastal areas.
Perhaps even global warming plays a part.
And, certainly, local officials were not incredibly efficient in addressing the flood.
However, as per Administration decree, Bush and the Feds are primarily responsible for what happens in the area of a state of emergency, as Hillary Clinton before and an emailer to this blog have pointed out:
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"Plain and simple: President Bush signed Gov. Blanco's request to declare a state of emergency in Louisiana on 8/27. Within the text of that declaration the Gov. declares:
Pursuant to 44 CFR �� 206.35, I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster.
The Stafford Act is the legal stipulator in that declaration. Under The Stafford Act:
�� 5170a. GENERAL FEDERAL ASSISTANCE {Sec. 402}
In any major disaster, the President may--
# direct any Federal agency, with or without reimbursement, to utilize its authorities and the resources granted to it under Federal law (including personnel, equipment, supplies, facilities, and managerial, technical, and advisory services) in support of State and local assistance efforts.
When President Bush signed that declaration on 8/27 he accepted a responsibility to the citizens of Louisiana. Who has the greater resources, Gov. Blanco, or President Bush? Why is Gov. Blanco held to a higher standard of competence than President Bush, when they each had the same responsibility?" |
In addition, as EFLTrainer's initial article points out, Bush underfunded the New Orleans levee reinforcement to 1/6th of the level recommended by local officials in his budget proposal.
Also, polls that suggest that only 13% of the American public believe that Bush is to blame for Hurricane Katrina cannot adequately convey public opinion about whether they believe Bush did a good or bad job. There are other polls that might represent the American public better. Personally, I doubt many people would place the blame on Bush for having a dictator like Saddam Hussein in power in Iraq. But how he deals with the situation is another story. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:29 am Post subject: |
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[deleted]
Last edited by Gopher on Sat Jun 10, 2006 11:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Actually, Gopher, the more I read about it the more I am convinced that Nowhere Man and EFLTrainer are on the mark (although EFLTrainer's personal attacks are marring his aim). |
Now, now. They're not marring my aim, just my reputation! But what of gopher's attacks? Sheesh....  |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
| Not surprising at all that such a small minority makes up such a vocal part of this forum...in any case, your views are apparently marginal. |
Yo, dude, the word you meant was marginalized. And don't bother coming back saying you meant what you wrote. marginal in this context would mean not worth a damn, while marginalized would mean out of the mainstream and ignored.
Go ahead, try. |
Actually, I said exactly what I meant to say. Your views are marginal. Whether someone or something has marginalized you two, how should I know? |
Anyway, that's what I think about it. Me and Merriam-Webster...
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=marginal
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=marginalized
Do you like apples? |
Alright, I'll be gentle: First, you are confusing aproval ratings with validity of an argument. No need to say more there...
Second, there are millions of people (It's a big country, just check those percentages!!) that agree with me. So, if we think Bush carries blame for what happened in NO we're all marginal?
You did not just say that.... Barbara!! Barbara!!! I've got a new speech writer for you!!! |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:39 am Post subject: |
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Oh, that poll? Let's see what else the exact poll turned up. Quotes from an editorial.
"Only 13 percent blame Bush?"
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Drudge refers to a new CNN-Gallup-USA Today poll. And sure enough, there is one question that asks, "Who do you think is most responsible for the problems in New Orleans after the hurricane?" Indeed, 13 percent answered Bush. (Another 18 percent answered "federal agencies" -- which the last time I checked, answer to Bush.)
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| Quote: |
| But in the same poll, people were asked a separate question -- judge how the president did in responding to the hurricane. And 42 percent said "bad" or "terrible" compared to 35 percent who said "great" or "good." |
| Quote: |
What the aforementioned polls demonstrate is that people are reasonable. Almost no one thinks Bush deserves all the blame for the post-Katrina fiasco. But they are clearly not comfortable that he did everything he could to minimize the damage to humanity and ease the suffering of the victims of the historic storm. And people are also concerned that he has not done enough to prepare the nation for the catastrophic. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:52 am Post subject: |
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Hey, Hey, Hey!
Just stop it now!
No more playing the blame-game!
Everyone wants the Bush administration to play the blame-game!
There are more important things to do right now than playing the blame-game!
"When you 'don't want to play the blame-game', it usually means you are to blame..." - Jon Stewart, last night's Daily Show |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| Bulsajo wrote: |
| "When you 'don't want to play the blame-game', it usually means you are to blame..." - Jon Stewart, last night's Daily Show |
Pretty much.
And here's my serious issue with NOT starting any investigation now. What happens to the memos? Shredded. What happens to people's memories? Clouded. What happens to motivation? Turned in other directions. What happens to resources? Locked up. What happens to evidence? Repaired. What happens to witnesses? Bought off.... in one form or another. What happens to inertia? Lost (Republicans control both houses of congress, let's not forget.)
Waiting will just be an extension of the disaster in that the truth will never be known and changes never made. Unacceptable. |
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