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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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Bulsajo

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:03 am Post subject: |
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Ah crap, I thought this was going to be prophecies about us, like:
"Dulouz will become a candidate for the next edition of "The Big Book of British Smiles" by inept Filipino dentists."
or
"Rapier will be eaten by wild beasts, birds of prey, and assorted carrion-eaters on his next eco-tour." |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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Well, golly. Most cultures which suffer natural disasters involving weather, fire, and water work weather, fire, and water into their end of the world prophesy. Most cultures also developed the pyramid too. And not because space aliens ran around the planet building pyramids. When you dump a bucket of sand on the ground, it forms a pyramid shape. Doesn't take a culture long to figure out the best way to build high is the stable pyramid shape. All cultures usually figure out the basics of physics and make similar judgments or mythologies about how the world work. |
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Leslie Cheswyck

Joined: 31 May 2003 Location: University of Western Chile
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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Hey, I saw it in a movie.
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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There is a lot of BS put out nowadays and some of it is just amusing. But there have always existed real seers and visionaries: (check out George Washington)a lot of prophecies have already been fulfilled, and have survived for centuries. Add to this the fact that many long-isolated cultures have striking similarities in their prophecies, but just use different images and words to illustrate them.
I neither believe nor do I discount them: but they do have value in the way they warn of possible dangers to the world and society. Their ultimate purpose is a helpful one I think. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 7:23 am Post subject: |
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I neither believe nor do I discount them: but they do have value in the way they warn of possible dangers to the world and society. Their ultimate purpose is a helpful one I think.
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Whoa! Way to stake out a position and take a stand, rapier. I wish I could do that with such conviction.
To quote myself quoting someone else: "To paraphrase Twain, two bull's eyes out of a possible million makes a successful prophet."
In one of my idle moments as a junior high student I once wondered if there had been dinosaur prophets who predicted the end of the world and if they were right.
I think the only thing the various prophecies affirm is that there are Chicken Littles in every society in every age. Sooner or later one of them proves to have been 'right', but it is always too late to do anything about it. There is an obscure cave in an obscure part of an obscure continent where Alley Oop painted his prediction that the invention of the spear would bring on the end of the world. If you read it allegorically, Alley was probably right. But then, if you read pretty much anything allegorically, you can make a case for pretty much any outcome you want.
PS: What is this reference to George? Am I supposed to read everything written by and about him and hope to stumble on your reference? No thanks. |
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gypsyfish
Joined: 17 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 8:10 am Post subject: |
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rapier wrote: |
There is a lot of BS put out nowadays and some of it is just amusing. But there have always existed real seers and visionaries: (check out George Washington)a lot of prophecies have already been fulfilled, and have survived for centuries. Add to this the fact that many long-isolated cultures have striking similarities in their prophecies, but just use different images and words to illustrate them.
I neither believe nor do I discount them: but they do have value in the way they warn of possible dangers to the world and society. Their ultimate purpose is a helpful one I think. |
No such thing as a 'real' seer. (Just because someone claims to be one, doesn't mean he can accurately foretell the future.)
If you say that 'real seers' have existed, then it sounds like you do believe in them.
Seers that predict the end of the world causing anxiety and sometimes suicide don't help society. |
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joe_doufu

Joined: 09 May 2005 Location: Elsewhere
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Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 8:38 am Post subject: |
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I heard about a group of e-mail spammers that will e-mail a million people with a prediction that XYZ stock will go up in the next week, and e-mail another million that XYZ stock will go down in the next week.
If the stock goes up, they drop the second group, e-mail half of the first group a prediction that ABC stock will rise, and e-mail half that ABC stock will fall. The following week they e-mail 250,000 each that LMNOP stock will rise, or fall. Then 125,000 get each prediction about TUV stock, and then 62,500 each get the prediction about QRS stock.
After ten weeks they still have roughly a couple thousand people who have received ten accurate predictions in a row. If only 1% of those have been reading their spam, the firm now has 20 suckers ready and willing to open up their bank accounts when they receive the 11th e-mail.
NOT A BAD SCAM, I'D SAY |
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Bulsajo

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 9:10 am Post subject: |
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rapier wrote: |
I neither believe nor do I discount them: but they do have value in the way they warn of possible dangers to the world and society. Their ultimate purpose is a helpful one I think. |
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Rapier you are hilarious. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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Nuclear destruction foretold in prophecies of many unrelated cultures:
Bible:
Rev 18:8 Therefore shall her [Babylon's] plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she [Babylon] shall be utterly burned with fire (Nuclear war): for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her [Babylon]. ^
Rev 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her [Babylon's] torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon [Babylon/USA], that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
Mayan prophecy:
"It is said, but who really knows, if it will be a storm or if it will be the sun, which will burn us, which will destroy us. Fast, very fast the end will reach us. It is said, it will only last as long as dawn lasts, as long as the sun needs to reach the treetops. Fast it will be. And nothing will be left of us. One hour and we are all gone.
Hopi:
The period of this age will close by the gourd of ashes which will glow brighter than the Sun.
Iroquois:
the battle between the white and the red serpents (USA & China/russia) would open slowly, then become so violent that the mountains would crack and the rivers would boil and the fish would turn up their bellies. He said that there would be no leaves on the trees in that area. There would be no grass, and strange bugs and beetles would crawl from the ground and attack both serpents. He said that a great heat would cause the stench of death to sicken both serpents.
he will be momentarily blinded by a light that is many times brighter than the sun. The light will be coming from the east to the west over the water
Apache
A great stench of death arose from the land... The sun seemed to be larger and more intense..the sky seemed to surge and huge holes began to appear. The holes tore with a thunderous sound, and the very Earth, rocks and soil shook.
George Washington 1777
"��Instantly a light as of a thousand suns (Nuclear explosions) shone down from above me and pierced and broke into fragments the dark cloud which enveloped America.
Gypsyfish said:
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Seers that predict the end of the world causing anxiety and sometimes suicide don't help society. |
They are warnings of probabilities that can be averted ,if the correct steps are taken by humanity. Not set in stone. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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rapier, your recent posts make me ponder: have you always been this nutty and finally have decided to be open about it now on Dave's OR have you just recently become a paranoid man obessed with the end of civilization in one way or another? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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bucheon bum wrote: |
rapier, your recent posts make me ponder: have you always been this nutty and finally have decided to be open about it now on Dave's OR have you just recently become a paranoid man obessed with the end of civilization in one way or another? |
I totally called this one! Check it out, Rapier is a native of Zimbabwe but has been turned away by Mugabe's policies. All sympathies to him for that. But the man has definitely been influenced by this. He has displaced his natural nationalistic tendencies with environmental concerns. It's not the end of the world, Rapier, it's the end of you.
Now do I agree with all of the article? No. Do I think Global Warming is an invention of the demographically desperate? Not exactly. Do I think this article describes Rapier's psychology? Yes, fairly well in fact. |
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desultude

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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The more I see of what is happening to the earth and how we are (not) responding, the more I think rapier is right.
I just received this article from my sister, it is from The Independent in the U.K. This should be so evident. That "toxic gumbo" in New Orleans, caused by chemicals, oil, and all of the wonderful pollutants we casually use on a daily basis- insecticides, pesticides, herbicides, etc, that are in the stores and garages and warehouses all over all of our cities and have now washed into the streets of New Orleans, is now being pumped back into Lake Ponchetrain and the Mississippi River. And what of the pictures of whole oil platforms washed up onto beaches? Where is the oil they had in/on them, and the pipelines running to and from them? What is currently happening to the Gulf of Mexico?
Quote: |
Cover-up: toxic waters 'will make New Orleans unsafe for a decade'
By Geoffrey Lean, Environment Correspondent
Published: 11 September 2005
Toxic chemicals in the New Orleans flood waters will make the city unsafe for full human habitation for a decade, a US government official has told The Independent on Sunday. And, he added, the Bush administration is covering up the danger.
In an exclusive interview, Hugh Kaufman, an expert on toxic waste and responses to environmental disasters at the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), said the way the polluted water was being pumped out was increasing the danger to health.
The pollution was far worse than had been admitted, he said, because his agency was failing to take enough samples and was refusing to make public the results of those it had analysed. "Inept political hacks" running the clean-up will imperil the health of low-income migrant workers by getting them to do the work.
His intervention came as President Bush's approval ratings fell below 40 per cent for the first time. Yesterday, Britain's Deputy Prime Minister, John Prescott, turned the screw by criticising the US President's opposition to the Kyoto protocol on global warming. He compared New Orleans to island nations such as the Maldives, which are threatened by rising sea levels. Other US sources spelt out the extent of the danger from one of America's most polluted industrial areas, known locally as "Cancer Alley". The 66 chemical plants, refineries and petroleum storage depots churn out 600m lb of toxic waste each year. Other dangerous substances are in site storage tanks or at the port of New Orleans. No one knows how much pollution has escaped through damaged plants and leaking pipes into the "toxic gumbo" now drowning the city. Mr Kaufman says no one is trying to find out.
Few people are better qualified to judge the extent of the problem. Mr Kaufman, who has been with the EPA since it was founded 35 years ago, helped to set up its hazardous waste programme. After serving as chief investigator to the EPA's ombudsman, he is now senior policy analyst in its Office of Solid Wastes and Emergency Response. He said the clean-up needed to be "the most massive public works exercise ever done", adding: "It will take 10 years to get everything up and running and safe."
Mr Kaufman claimed the Bush administration was playing down the need for a clean-up: the EPA has not been included in the core White House group tackling the crisis. "Its budget has been cut and inept political hacks have been put in key positions," Mr Kaufman said. "All the money for emergency response has gone to buy guns and cowboys - which don't do anything when a hurricane hits. We were less prepared for this than we would have been on 10 September 2001."
He said the water being pumped out of the city was not being tested for pollution and would damage Lake Pontchartrain and the Mississippi river, and endanger people using it downstream.
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article311818.ece |
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Bulsajo

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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bucheon bum wrote: |
rapier, your recent posts make me ponder: have you always been this nutty and finally have decided to be open about it now on Dave's OR have you just recently become a paranoid man obessed with the end of civilization in one way or another? |
Excellent question.
If you'd have asked me more than month a go I would have said that Rapier was one of the better sorts of regulars around here.
He was pretty harsh on Muslims in general, which isn't surprising nor uncommon these days (i.e. only a little ignorant).
I first noticed (what I considered to be) some pretty bizarre opinions in threads about Israel's withdrawal from Gaza, and then of course that escalated into the whole "Whites out of America" Schtik.
And now we're getting stuff like native americans should be engaging in terrorism, and Palestinians belong in Turkey, and the Mayans predicted a nuclear armageddon- real nutbull stuff that makes even your average lunatic fringe conspiracy theorist flinch and look away.  |
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gypsyfish
Joined: 17 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 4:45 am Post subject: |
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desultude wrote: |
The more I see of what is happening to the earth and how we are (not) responding, the more I think rapier is right.
I just received this article from my sister, it is from The Independent in the U.K. This should be so evident. That "toxic gumbo" in New Orleans, caused by chemicals, oil, and all of the wonderful pollutants we casually use on a daily basis- insecticides, pesticides, herbicides, etc, that are in the stores and garages and warehouses all over all of our cities and have now washed into the streets of New Orleans, is now being pumped back into Lake Ponchetrain and the Mississippi River. And what of the pictures of whole oil platforms washed up onto beaches? Where is the oil they had in/on them, and the pipelines running to and from them? What is currently happening to the Gulf of Mexico?
Quote: |
Cover-up: toxic waters 'will make New Orleans unsafe for a decade'
By Geoffrey Lean, Environment Correspondent
Published: 11 September 2005
Toxic chemicals in the New Orleans flood waters will make the city unsafe for full human habitation for a decade, a US government official has told The Independent on Sunday. And, he added, the Bush administration is covering up the danger.
In an exclusive interview, Hugh Kaufman, an expert on toxic waste and responses to environmental disasters at the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), said the way the polluted water was being pumped out was increasing the danger to health.
The pollution was far worse than had been admitted, he said, because his agency was failing to take enough samples and was refusing to make public the results of those it had analysed. "Inept political hacks" running the clean-up will imperil the health of low-income migrant workers by getting them to do the work.
His intervention came as President Bush's approval ratings fell below 40 per cent for the first time. Yesterday, Britain's Deputy Prime Minister, John Prescott, turned the screw by criticising the US President's opposition to the Kyoto protocol on global warming. He compared New Orleans to island nations such as the Maldives, which are threatened by rising sea levels. Other US sources spelt out the extent of the danger from one of America's most polluted industrial areas, known locally as "Cancer Alley". The 66 chemical plants, refineries and petroleum storage depots churn out 600m lb of toxic waste each year. Other dangerous substances are in site storage tanks or at the port of New Orleans. No one knows how much pollution has escaped through damaged plants and leaking pipes into the "toxic gumbo" now drowning the city. Mr Kaufman says no one is trying to find out.
Few people are better qualified to judge the extent of the problem. Mr Kaufman, who has been with the EPA since it was founded 35 years ago, helped to set up its hazardous waste programme. After serving as chief investigator to the EPA's ombudsman, he is now senior policy analyst in its Office of Solid Wastes and Emergency Response. He said the clean-up needed to be "the most massive public works exercise ever done", adding: "It will take 10 years to get everything up and running and safe."
Mr Kaufman claimed the Bush administration was playing down the need for a clean-up: the EPA has not been included in the core White House group tackling the crisis. "Its budget has been cut and inept political hacks have been put in key positions," Mr Kaufman said. "All the money for emergency response has gone to buy guns and cowboys - which don't do anything when a hurricane hits. We were less prepared for this than we would have been on 10 September 2001."
He said the water being pumped out of the city was not being tested for pollution and would damage Lake Pontchartrain and the Mississippi river, and endanger people using it downstream.
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article311818.ece |
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No argument that it's horrible, but what's the solution in this case?
We can't put the genie back in the bottle, the pollutants are there, letting them sit in the streets is no solution. Changing our ways about using pesticides, herbicides, and insecticides now, (yeah, like that'll happen) won't change the current situation.
I'm not criticizing your criticism, I agree that it's being handled poorly by political hacks who care about their jobs not about the victims, but short of cleaning it or loading up water buffalos and carting it away, I see no other way of dealing with it. |
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