Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Angrycareb]

a couple of things:

i am already working at said elementary school along with another person who signed the same contract at the same time who is also _not_ down with this request. "walking away" as some have suggested means a midnight run at this point.

neither of us has the signed contract in our possession--hopefully, this will be rectified soon. at the signing, we were both hesitant because of various things which the recruiter happily obliged. nowhere in the contract we signed was there a clause for this 'banking request'.

we are getting paid a guaranteed sum on the month anniversary of the day we started (the 5th) regardless of student enrollment. i get a little more than the other guy because i teach one extra class a day.

we both love and are enthusiastic about our jobs and the way things have worked thus far. neither one of us has the cash or financial flexibility to simply "walk away" from the situation. we have a vested interest in staying and finishing our contracts.

these jobs are with E-2 visas and nothing but taxes taken from our salaries. housing is up to ourselves. the visas are sponsored by the school (thankfully).

we are not being asked to sign anything extra to arrange the payment method for our paychecks. this feels more like a last minute or btw request. we are not bound by any contract or legal document to set up such accounts.

[Angrycareb]

this all being said, here is what i sent back to my pseudo-employer last week:

Dear *******,

I agree with everything ****** says in his response. At best this sounds like the stuff nightmares are made of and I am very reluctant to give such free access to anyone concerning my accounts in Korea. I find the laws and consumer protections here difficult, if impossible, to understand.

I would also like a more detailed explanation of how this system is supposed to work and why our English Manager can't have his or her own account and then distribute the money from there. I already have a bank account in my name which I have used for over three years. Why can't my paycheck be deposited into that account?

My understanding of Korean law states that foreigners are only allowed one bank account at a time. If this is true, then I am unwilling to close my current account just so I can open one at Woori Bank and give away the privacy and protection I have enjoyed thus far.

Please justify this procedure and explain, if you can, why it is important to handle our paychecks in such a strange manner.

Respectfully,


me


and then the reply (with a lot of fodder and dodged questions):

Regarding the salary... (bank account request)... I can guess from both yours and ********* responses to the request to open the Woori Bank account - that neither of you wish to do this... however...



As this school is a "Public Elementary School" the payment system (salary) is paid different to that of a Private Institute.

The English Manager requires you to open a bank account in your name (at the Woori Bank) and to give the bank book and cashcard/keycard/ pin number to the English Manager.

This is done for a couple of reasons... Let me explain.... whilst you are teaching at the school - the gov't, students parents and school deposit differing amounts of cash and student fees into the Woori bank account on different dates throughout any single month.

This is an extremely safe mode of transaction - and the 3-4 English Managers at various (100+) Public Schools throughout Metropolitan Seoul) for whom I work have over 100 Public School teachers throughout Seoul who also use the exact same mode of transaction. Actually during the past 4 years of working in the Public School system I have requested over 100 teachers to open the additional Woori Bank account - and all of those teachers have been satisfied with the mode of transaction.

Your salary will still be paid into your own personal bank account - always on your paydate - and you are the only person with access to that account (as it is your own bank account) - however what you are being requested to do is open a second - additional bank account at the Woori bank - and give this account bank book/cashcard and pin number to your English Manager - your English Manager will then be the one and ONLY person with access to that (second/additional) bank account.. All foreigners in Korea are permitted by law to open as many bank accounts at any bank as they desire... I myself have 5 bank accounts at 4 different banks..

If you have a bank account at the Woori already or at another bank - that is ok - no need to give anybody access to those accounts (they are your personal accounts) but the request is simply open another additional account at the Woori bank and give this to your English Manager - is is extremely safe and effective - and the over 100 teachers employed by the 4 English Managers I am employed for - have been satisfied with this mode of transaction - Nobody will access your account except for your English Manager - and its impossible to overdraw this account etc etc - it is simply the bank account that the students parents, school and government pay differing amounts of cash into on different days throughout any given month.

The Manager/School then deducts the relevant fees and taxes from this money, and then pays both yourself and your Korean assistants salary to you from the remainder of the money into your own (personal/different/private) bank account.



This ensures that your salary is always paid into your personal bank account - always on your pay-date (the date you commenced teaching)... and you are always paid the correct amount.

At the end of your employment at the school - you can ask the English Manager to return the bankbook and keycard to you - or simply close the account.

You are required to open a Woori bank account - and to give the bank book/key(cashcard) and pin code to your Korean teacher assistant by Tuesday next week - your Korean assistant teacher will give it to the English Manager that same day.

If you still have problems with this procedure - please phone me during this weekend..

Thanks for your time.

[fusionbarnone]

What slippery biz practise!

K-recruito-pimps and moonlighting hogwan muppet masters must really be counting on the foreigner to flee post uno ano(outta sight/mind/fleeced/time-locked visa) what a get out of jail free card for this creative and larconously minded gaggle. Can be dusted off and reused for ALL FOUR SEASONS too!

Did the K-recruiter/K-english poser 'conjure" this psuedo-operandi "standard" all by themselves? Are foreign co-signees supposed to bend forward in awe and gratitude? Defies belief. Cheeky in a Korean sort of way though.Works if you stop n stare at the approaching headlights.

What did the labor board/EFL-Law say?

Why not open your own Nyonghyup account(as an employee; are you hermano a hermano with a friendly K-teacher?). With a Woori Bank account(what is the biz relationship/importance of this bank that is of concern to your handlers?) and with payments for miscellaneous biz expenses including consultant/s(how many are suppin offa your nipple?) are you THEIR employer? Would certainly look like it according to my accountant, and almost insinuate(on paper)that you are operating a business with the middle-slurpers as, "silent" partners. You get stuck with the costs to the piper.

Who is your employer/visa sponsor? What paperwork did the K-recruito-matic do/stated on contract/official documentation? From,I am Sam; "who's the parent here?"

An employer pays the employee does it not? Deductions are made(by visa sponsor/legal employer) before you "git wots comin to ya" usually. Who is the legal employer(legally responsible for you throughout your tenure) and actually paying your wages?

Are you eligible for pension refund? Better to peruse the proposed "payment vehicle" for this. You could lose DOUBLE if this isn't conducted properly.

Taxes, 50% medical contributions(can you choose your own provider?) are the "correct" deductions likely to occur rather than miscellaneous" sums purporting to be correct.

Many countries have a double taxation exchange agreement with Korea IRS you absolutely do not want arbitrary "tax" deductions made in your name against income that propels you into a higher tax bracket(with future ramifications visiting you at your parents fireside back home courtesy of your own IRS) . Should this be the case(US citizen can earn X-amount before paying home taxes) and should you intend to work in the ROK for longer than a year, this could impact on your overall foreign earnings entitlement i.e, you've payed tax twice(current earnings will collectively compound with future teaching earnings thus this money will appear (according to your passbook) that you actually earned "overtime" whatever way you are left to explain this.

Find an official copy of required deductions in the ROK from the relevant department. Ask the Labor board and ESL-Law. This will show you have done your homework(personal power). In addition, does it look "likely" you could be farmed out to other orgs? Perhaps requesting a form from Immigration(purely for show, "oops accidentally fell out of my lesson plan collection cum offshore companies registration forms) would be insurance against playing you for an unmentionable(authority power as if you are miraculously informed and may have powerful buddies or, a 'friend" in immi).

The PIN to your account is a no-brainer. Does the outfit that hired you have expensive mistresses to support? Don't encourage them I say.

If "deductions were made with "your" PIN(it's illegal in many countries to use obvious PINs like: 1,2,3,4 for example; how would/can anyone explain culpability-cum-negligence in this respect to auditors. Changing PINs often is considered safe prectice too. Just a thought.

f you hold the PIN yet you deliver bank details of your actual account(keep a copy, 'forget" your passbook; with PIN; your memory is not what it used to be, etc, in your friend's backpack who just happens to live 4 hours from whereever you happen to be). Give lots of sorry, I'll see to it lip service, etc(pamper to the meglomania). This temporary inacesibilty should buy you negotiation time/leverage. Don't open a new account on their prodding. Use your imagination if they try.

If by unfortunate chance/circumstance, you believe the sum quoted from the K-Enron wannabe notebook of;"1001 lip service time-disempowering bleats guaranteed to stun waygooks". Well, just don't. Get them while they are still viewing your/their expected windfall(your earnings) through a laser activated shark tank. Once they have you by your family jewels, you will never be able to get in contact with them again about your concerns. However, they WILL find you in nano-seconds if it's profitable for them.

When "caught out" Ks will bang desks, scream, berate("you don't understand korean culture" , they'll guilt-trip you with also during this process) as they progress through their, "face saving routine". (want training???? then watch your kids. They'll show you some slick moves) this is considered really uncool face-saving wise to question the self appointed local oracles. Do it, present your concerns, step back, smile(translates in K-body language as being sorry by the way), then wait. I've yet to see a rascally brat fail to try for another swipe at the lollipop, be calm, patient , and reiterate ad-nauseum. If you have a pencil draw them a picture. really. They have to come up for air sometime. Get them then.

BTW: cultural reiteration is paramount in K-negotiation as it is in ESL as the skulls are thicker simply due to the fact that the eggs to expected chicken/s output was already decided,including fleecing manifesto pending, in some lame Hof near you.

Gently coercing the wild-eye one(standard K-ESL theatre) is also required(stating facts) until facts can be delivered as to your choice of financial planning. Best to let the face-saving proceed(peeter out) at a distance and, change your physical location slowly every 30 seconds until it(the, "I can't believe you can be so ungrateful afyer everything I'm going to do to you"and "I'm a genius who's always thinking of your best interests, trust me" spiel) dies down. If not; wait then offer a 4,000 won cheap shikdang lunch or dinner on you(you decide venue and time). Performing never fails to deliver an appetite.

If the "temporarily unhuman one" accepts, get your spiel together and tune your violin. If not, there's always later. Be patient/think of Friday/beer/women,etc. Find your happy place and treat this as a further contractual negotiation.

Also, be a sport and invite(lunch would be the most opportune time) Principal and vice -principal. It IS correct Korean protocol to invite your employers, bring them into "the loop" just forget to inform "that thar liddle missy" K-flauntleroy until, last minute(as they arrive). May be the best investment outlay(ROI) you'll ever make this year. Power and influence by association.

By extracting tribute from you for the honor of humoring the brats of the economically tenously arrogant oligarchy(hogwan I really mean here), it appears as if the decisions are being arranged and decided by, you. As someone else on this board mentioned, the eyes of officialdom could begin looking in your direction if these sketchy procedural issues are not addressed.

Protect yourself and may your rightful dues materialize in a timely and non-stressful manner.

Good luck. My thoughts and 2 cents.

[ontheway]

Why does this scheme look like tax evasion?

Gord made a good point about the agent's fee. If that was the only thing being deducted from the account (along with the direct tax obligations of the teacher), it would only look suspicious and risky. It would be understandable that an agent might feel his commission was at risk from some foreign teachers.

But, the OP clearly states that his co-worker, "Korean assistant," will be paid out of his account. Why? Why doesn't the school pay these coworkers directly? Or, why doesn't the school pay all the money to the agent?

If the school must pay each worker individually, then how can they pay the money for a teacher and an assistant jointly into one account?

And, if the school can pay the money for more than one person into the same account, why not put the account into the name of the Korean assistant? or the agent?

The answer APPEARS TO ME to be:

The agent has over 100 teachers over a 4 year period. Let's say 25 per year. The agent would appear to be running a rather large enterprise. This would mean much greater financial review by the tax authorities. But, the agent hides the money in 25 different bank accounts. The bank accounts belong to foreigners who leave the country, or at least the program, every year or two. Account closed. Teacher gone. To unravel, track down, interview, charge and collect from all of these individuals would make resolution of unpaid taxes due from the original agent nearly impossible.

The Korean teachers, who never leave Korea, would be more likely to refuse to go along with this scheme. But since they are financially employees of the foreign teachers who are gone, who can the tax authorities chase for the money? And the agent transfers the money into the Korean teachers' accounts from the foreign teachers' accounts, so perhaps the Korean assistants are unaware of the details of the system.

The money is broken up into 25 smaller piles. These are less likely to draw attention than one big pile. And it's much easier to "follow the money" to one business than to 25 dirty, sneaky, shifty foreigners. And over a 4 year period it's already 100 dss foreigners. (I can imagine this on some future TV broadcast as they propose legislation to crack down on the teachers who are still here.)

Further, the person who wrote the letter to the OP indicates that he/she is a foreigner with 4 or 5 bank accounts. (This, at least is legit. I have many bank accounts myself.) Perhaps this person will be closing his accounts or moving the money offshore faster than the foreign teachers.

How much tax evasion is taking place? I don't know. It could actually be all legal, but then why make up such a complicated mess. Just collect all the money from the teachers and schools into one account (or pot) and then pay them all and the taxes, too.

But, the big savings come from those business taxes in Korea that are based on Total Business Recipts. This agent has shifted all of those obligations into the vanishing accounts of the foreigners. And the agent will never have to account for the "total revenue - expenses = profit" of his business. He will never have to make such a calculation or pay the tax on it.

The agent then gets his own income in dribs and drabs taken monthly or even more frequently from 25 different accounts, probably through cash withdrawls in the TEACHERS' NAMES. This sure looks tax free to me. Why would you report any of it?

CLEVER? - you bet! LEGAL? - This looks like an auditor's dream for an interesting puzzle to solve.

Who are these guys anyway? Let's get from the theoretical into the facts.

[ontheway]

One more point re: Worri Bank:

The reason for requiring everyone to use one bank (Worri or whatever) should be plain. This scheme is very complicated. Much more than simple pen and paper accounting or computer transfers. The agent(s) will be spending hours calculating and then transferring and withdrawing their cash every month from all those accounts. You'll be able to find them with stacks of papers and probably a cup o'joe passing the time going from account to account at the cash machines. All those cards, all those pin numbers ... no time to go to more than one bank.

[steelhead]

Again Gord is on my case,

He was the guy previously that suggest I bend over and take it. Suggesting that In the end it will work out better for me...... I say that if I take it now, this recruiter will continue to give it to me at every opportunity.

Gord also suggests its my greed that is getting to me but I must say after 2 days of working this job, its no cakewalk, and I dont see how I should work my arse off and let her sit back and let the cash roll in.

Ive seen many public school jobs being offered, and the recruiter requires a one time fee of 25% of the first month, and then ...POOF, gone.

In my situation, I would have been ompletely content with this. But my recruiter is going for the endzone. If he will give me $ ...lets just see how much I can get.

ANother difference between my job and the others. A managers fee and pay often includes the medical, flight, and housing. I get nothing!.....

I would of even suggested that if I found out she was taking 5k per class, which woudl work out to 400k a month, and 1600k over the semmester, I would have been ok..... but again, she is goin for the whole 9 yards.

Ive already submitted my personal bank account to the school, unknowing of the recruiter

Wish me luck.

[Gord]

[Grotto]

Can you tell any of us if you would hand over total access to your bank account Gord? Who knows what kind of crap they could get into with total access to an account.

You should never ever give anyone access to your account. They can have the account number to deposit money into the account but under no circumstances should anyone but yourself have a passbook, bank card or the pin number.

If all the money is being deposited into an account in your name could you not have some kind of problem with taxes later on?

[Gord]

[some waygug-in]

[Quote: Gord] The poster claimed that the taxes were being duducted on the pre-recruiter amount. With proper documentation, at the end of the year he would have earned a rather sizeable refund due to overpayments as the 10,000 Won per hour would be removed from his taxable earnings.


How do you figure this? Where is there going to be any "proper documentation"? What happens if they didn't pay enough? Then the teacher would be required to pay a huge bill at the end of the year?
This whole arrangement just stinks in so many ways.

For all any of us knows, this could be some money-laundering scheme set up with the help of the Korean mafia, all in some foreign teacher's name.

Oh joy of joys! Wouldn't that be lovely?

[steelhead]

Ok... could you highlight these insults I apparently were slinging?

Gord, you seemed to have had all these great options, but would any of them actually work? A receipt from the recruiter.... lets be serious.

I wasnt posing anything. I came to this board with legitimate concerns. I took everyones advice, went to Efl-Law, and eventually, went the way of the consensus. You however, were the only guy, advocating for equal rights between slimy recruiters and honest teachers.

I am not comparing my job to that of heavy labour. Ive done it, and know what its like. However, having to keep up a song and dance, teaching classes where they dont use a text book, gets exhausting, after seeing 900 students a week.

I would of been all for some kind of happy medium, but apparently nothing fo the sort was offered to me. I know eveyone is trying to make a living....but some of us are trying to make an honest living.

If she was forthright with everything that was happening etc... sure I probably wouldnt be as vindictive.S.K isnt exactly on the better business bureau's top 5 places to do business. Its a eat or be eaten place..... I refuse to be someones lap dog, and manipulated.

Maybe you are... but each to his own.

[Gord]

[denverdeath]

Steelhead, I recommend being careful(I'm not saying you're not doing so already...and, I'm basically on your side in this issue). In giving the banking info directly to the school, are you sure that the principal will not call up your recruiter? I'd hate to see you get blacklisted, fired, and/or incarcerated. Are you also sure that the principal doesn't already know what's up with this gig? Maybe he's getting part of the money too? I do agree with Gord in that you agreed to 25k per hour and that's all that you should get. If you had've gone directly to the school, you may've been able to get the full 35, but maybe not. If either you or the OP find no other way out of the current arrangement, I'd at least verify the amount of tax that you're supposed to be paying on the amount you make. I would also make sure that you insist on a corrected pay stub each month from your school/recruiter so you can cover your own ass if any tax questions come up at the end of the year. I still strongly believe that this recruiter is trying to pull the wool over someone's eyes. They have a very strange set up.

[some waygug-in]

[Hollywoodaction]

Here's an idea. Ask him why he didn't have all the money, from his 100 teachers, transfered to a company account in his own name.