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Is Korea one giant cult?
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patchy



Joined: 26 Apr 2005

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:58 pm    Post subject: Is Korea one giant cult? Reply with quote

I was reading about cults the other day (including organizations like Amway and other multi-level marketing organizations that operate in cult-like ways), and it struck me how similar Koreans behave to cult members.

Some things about how cults control their members from memory:

1. Never be negative - Koreans are on the whole, to outsiders anyway positive about Korea, and resent any outsiders making the slightest criticism about Korea, (although I've got to say, in private they can be very critical about Korea). Thought-stopping techniques also operate here.
Hence the inordinate pride in one's country that Koreans have, exaggerating the accomplishments of the country, the constant seeking of approval and fishing for compliments "Korean women are the most beautiful, make the best wives, are the most desired." The spectacle of patriotic behavior at sporting events.

2. Isolation - Korea is an insular country, Koreans don't like to mix with other nationalities. One aspect of this - dating or marrying outside your nationality is discouraged - although this is changing, it's becoming OK to marry a foreigner who has a higher social status or economic status than you or represents a ticket to upward mobility - eg a chance to migrate to a wealthier country. Some people are even starting to think it is a prestige thing to marry a westerner.

Even when traveling overseas, Koreans like to travel in groups, and groups of one nationality tend to reduce an individual from interacting with other nationalities. Koreans have been isolated for so long and to such a great degree that the foreignness of other people and other places can be overwhelming for some. Being in a group buffers one from this.

The isolation aspect allows control over cult members to flourish undisturbed.

3. Love-bombing - Koreans can be very affectionate once you are included in their circle. Families also demonstrate love-bombing AKA guilt trips, and children are encouraged to be obedient to their parents and other elders.

Others have mentioned the suffocating hospitality that they are shown, often intrusive and unwelcoming attentions, eg, when they are sick, the overblown demonstrations of concern that take place - there was one thread about this.

A sense of belonging - Koreans call each other by family names, "oppa", "oni" etc, everyone who is Korean is considered one large family, and the laws make it relatively easy for someone of Korean ethnic extraction who has lived their whole lives outside the country to set up shop here (but not being able to speak Korean is a handicap, "how can anyone Korean, be of Korean ethnicity, not be able to speak Korean!").

4. Showing respect to your upline - or showing respect to your parents, especially your father, and during holidays, eg Chuseok to your ancestors. Parents are revered authority figures and must be obeyed, not questioned. Sacrifices made by parents are always stressed; the 'sacrifices' on the part of the children, attending hagwons or home-study classes at school until late at night, to satisfy the parents' ambitions, is never considered to be a sacrifice. The ties hardly loosen even when the 'child' is over thirty, especially when they're still living at home.

Conversely, treating your downline badly. The bullying in the military by an slightly older recruit to a younger one (and also in schools). Even the behavior of halmonis and harabojis, even just middle-aged people, cutting in front of you, shoving, pushing you out of the way. The distinctions in the Korean language - older brother, younger brother, older sister, younger sister, evidence of a strong hierarchial system based on age (there are different levels you can aspire to depending on how far up you progress in the foodchain in the MLM companies, the higher levels are called Emerald and Diamond in Amway).

5. The profits are always made at the top. Well, the analogy is a little bit shaky, but in a sense this is true, in that if a person prospers, the parents also prosper, and the family name is enhanced in value. The family is more important than the individual, and the family's collective desire is of a higher priority than the lone member's. Moreover, the Korean will feel that he is working for his/her family and not for himself as it is the parents who have often mapped out his/her career, if not his/her whole life. Parents exert considerable control over how the income is spent.

Once an individual becomes a parent (director in Amway-speak), they often initiate the same cycle of control and brainwashing of their own children (they have become Emerald members and now expect their downlines to work for them and keep them at Emerald level status or promote them to Diamond level).

If you can consider chaebols as substitute parental figures for the workers than this is true. Workers, including salarymen were encouraged to sacrifice themselves for the good of their company. A child-parent relationship develops. Samsung fosters this relationship by providing benefits like education allowances for the children of managers. Workers are encouraged to stay back long hours, almost spending all their waking hours at the office (or at places of entertainment after work with co-workers). Meal vouchers are provided to enable this, the chaebol or substitute parent feeding them. (This might not be unique to Korean companies however.) Lifetime employment was part of this belonging to a family feeling of working for a chaebol, but this is no longer offered since the financial crisis of the nineties.

6. Time starvation. People have no time to themselves. Children spend much of their free time attending hagwons and salarymen spend their little free time outside work socializing with their colleagues and superiors. People are always made keeping busy, much like how cults are always organizing meetings and seminars and exerting pressure on members to attend.

One salaryman I know who is a member of Amway is REALLY time-starved.

7. Worship of the figure-head. At the family level, this would be worship of the father, and of the ancestors, especially male ancestors. At the national level, this would be worship of the country itself. And so you hear of all the things praising Korea. Korea has four seasons, even in the natural world, Korea is perfect, Korean food is the best and most healthy for you, Korea has the best customs, mores (is the most respectful culture). Similar to how cult members worship the often charismatic founders of the organizations. A myth develops about the saintly qualities of the founders.


I suspect brainwashing has been part of Korean culture for a long time, and probably why Christianity has taken off in a big way in its relatively short history in Korea (this is even more pronounced in the US in the Korean community where immigrants feel more vulnerable to the influences of the Christian church, it gives them a sense of belonging among other things). Before Christianity, it was Confucianism, this was much much bigger in Korea than it ever was in China, where it originated. Of course, some people are going to disagree and say that Christianity is not a cult. It's notable that a significant number of cults overseas are led by Koreans.


Last edited by patchy on Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:33 pm; edited 5 times in total
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Bulsajo



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, they're not trying desperately to get you to join.
The opposite in fact.
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Qinella



Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of what you listed are simply characteristics of a collectivist society. You are a westerner, and hence are probably from an individualist society. Before the advent of capitalism, collectivism was the norm, but the capitalist ideal hardly allows for that. Hence, there is now a strong divide in the world between ancient and modern, collectivism and individualism.

Here is a web page with a good summary of the dichotomy:

http://psychcentral.com/psypsych/Collectivist_societies

It contains this list of typical characteristics of a collectivist society:

    Group goals and achievement.
    More "interdependent"
    "We"or "Us" identity
    Each person is encouraged to conform to society, to do what is best for the group and to not openly express opinions or beliefs that go against it.
    Group, family or rights for the common good seen as most important (eg. Rules that promote stability, order, obedience)
    Fitting in or conforming to group or society is required.
    More distinction between in-group and out-group.
    Working with others and cooperating is the norm. Refusal to cooperate and wanting to be independent or stand out is seen as shameful. Everyone must rely on others for support.


Any of those items sound familiar?


Incidentally, the Bible was written entirely within a collectivist paradigm, which is a reason why there are so many misunderstandings within the text, and why some of us will just never get what Jesus et al were saying. (Although, modern research is focusing on understanding the context and its pursuant language/social understanding gaps.)

Cheers,
Q~
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patchy



Joined: 26 Apr 2005

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the link http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/groups/a/amway/ that got me started thinking how cult-like Koreans' behavior is.
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indytrucks



Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Location: The Shelf

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great. Another nooooob has it all figured out.
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patchy



Joined: 26 Apr 2005

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I have.
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Swiss James



Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Location: Shanghai

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how long you been here Patchy?
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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1)Uniformity and conformity is enforced. The group consciousness takes precedence over the individual.

these people all do the same things, at the same time, en masse. they all have the same mindset and opinions. They even take holidays at exactly the same time, jamming the transport networks. they eat the same food and more or less dress the same. indidual actions must be approved by the collective before they can go ahead. A largely workable generalisation: lets be honest.

it has both cult and collectivist qualities.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you know Koreans well enough, it is possible to get them to admit that there are problems with Korea, and that some of these problems are a result of Korean culture and/or Confucianism. Obviously, one is not likely to get this degree of frankenss if the first thing one talks about when meeting a Korean is how messed up Korea is.

Now, as a comparison: how likely do you think a Scientologist is to tell an outsider that there are problems in that organiztion, and that these problems are the result of Scientology culture and/or the teachings of L. Ron Hubbard?

Patchy, you make some good observations about Korean society in general. However, I think you go a bit overboard with the "cult" thing.
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patchy



Joined: 26 Apr 2005

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
However, I think you go a bit overboard with the "cult" thing.


How so?

If it looks like a cult, walks like a cult, sounds like a cult, I think it could very well BE a cult.
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mercury



Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Location: Pusan

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good insight, one of the best posts this month
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Quote:
However, I think you go a bit overboard with the "cult" thing.


How so?

If it looks like a cult, walks like a cult, sounds like a cult, I think it could very well BE a cult.


But it doesn't look, walk, or sound like a cult.

Where is the central authority to enforce discipline? If a Korean criticizes Korea publically(as I've seen some newspaper columnists do for example), he might be ostracized from his social circle, but no one is going to show up at his door and tell him that if he doesn't recant his statements he's gonna be kicked out the Korean religion. And I don't know how well you know Koreans who have lived overseas, but it's not uncommon to hear them compare Korea unfavourably(in some respects anyway) to the motherland. I DON'T think too many Scientologists are joining Catholicism for a few years, and then returing to the Dianetics fold to openly express their opinions about all the things that the Pope knows better than L. Ron Hubbard. At least not if they wanna stay members of the group.
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seoulkitchen



Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Location: Hub of Asia, my ass!

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Where is the central authority to enforce discipline? If a Korean criticizes Korea publically(as I've seen some newspaper columnists do for example), he might be ostracized from his social circle, but no one is going to show up at his door and tell him that if he doesn't recant his statements he's gonna be kicked out the Korean religion


Well, you could say that society as whole would be that central authority. Koreans have the thing called jang (jung or something like that) which is this underlying collective spirit thingy that seems to mysteriously guide them.
And there are plenty of things a Korean can do to get kicked out of the 'korean religion'. Something as simple as becoming an orphan.
(have you seen what happens to an orphan???)
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indytrucks



Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Location: The Shelf

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some noob who's been here for two months and now can reveal the secrets of the universe wrote:

If it looks like a cult, walks like a cult, sounds like a cult, I think it could very well BE a cult.


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tomato



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Patchy's description of Korean culture can also apply, in certain ways, to English schools:

Quote:
love-bombing


At a chain school where I applied for a job, I was handed an advertising pamphlet showing the English teachers happily participating in hiking trips, camping trips, and birthday parties.

No, thanks!

The Amway page on the Freedom of Thought Website also describes some of the English school tactics:

Quote:
No new ideas


In other words, "Individualism discouraged; group think prevails."

"Right from the start you're advised that there is no money in creativity, as the perfect 'system' of success has been created." Likewise, the author of the textbook has the perfect way of teaching English.

Quote:
No crosslining


To seek any material from outside the publisher's packet would be equivalent to "crosslining."

Quote:
Extensive use of cult generated information and propaganda


From some publishers, you will not only have every minute of your class time planned for you, but you will have your whole room decorated wall-to-wall with their material.

Quote:
Use of deception


You can surely supply examples for this one.

Quote:
Make the person feel like if there are ever any problems it is always their fault, never the leader's or the group's.


Does that sound familiar?

Quote:
Excessive use of fear


My director is always telling me that English schools are closing down and jobs are becoming scarce. So I'd better learn to tolerate her, or I'll be out on the street.

And speaking of Korean culture as related to cult tactics, look what a Korean-American is doing over in our neck of the woods:

http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/groups/c/chung/

Could he have learned all those tricks by living in Korea?

And speaking of freedom of thought, why should we ask Patchy how long he has been in Korea? Should newcomers allow old-timers to do all their thinking for them?
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