|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
 Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:21 pm Post subject: Sheehan:...pull our troops out of occupied New Orleans .. |
 |
|
| Quote: |
| ...George Bush needs to stop talking, admit the mistakes of his all around failed administration, pull our troops out of occupied New Orleans and Iraq, and excuse his self from power . The only way America will become more secure is if we have a new administration that cares about Americans even if they don't fall into the top two percent of the wealthiest. |
http://www.michaelmoore.com/mustread/index.php?id=503 |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
She's clearly just playing politics now, as touring the affected area in New Orleans and critiquing it doesn't have any clear connection with asking Bush why her son had to die in Iraq. Calling New Orleans an "occupied city" is not fair, particularly when the mayor and the governoner asked the administration to declare a national state of emergency. What does she think happens in national states of emergency?
She refers to armed patrols, seeing soldiers with weapons slung on their backs, and claims she asked one what it would take for them to shoot her. The answer is: a lot. And it might be in order to clarify that only the National Guard is actually running armed patrols. I saw video of the 82d Airborne making a show of patroling the streets, handing out MREs. They, too, had rifles slung. I also noticed that their rifles had no mags in them... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
I agree, two very different points.
We assume, that 9/11 and the War on Iraq had an impact on whether they were ready in NO. Unless you can actually show the difference in the actions and readiness of post Katrina and pre Katrina, pre 9/11 it is nothing more than just an assumption.
Based on available facts and information. There will always be a question of whether it would have been different. If you can show plans created pre bush to make changes, show how he removed or deleted those plans to save money, or show how actions taken by a previous govt were superceded by the new realities in this region. It will be always hypothetical.
Her son was a soldier, for good or bad, he served his country. Does she have an opinion on what issue he should have died for. I am sorry for her loss. No one needs to die for stupid reasons and no one needs to be used by another to sell their ideas.
(It will be rediscussed) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| This woman is unbelievable... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Whack job. Didn't somebady say in a previous thread that it would be a big mistake for the left to rally around her? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 7:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Bulsajo wrote: |
| Whack job. Didn't somebady say in a previous thread that it would be a big mistake for the left to rally around her? |
Yes, but not to worry. The left (at least on this board) will find another "patron saint" to rally around. Too bad their idols always turn out to have feet of clay. Michael Moore anyone? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 5:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
In the United States, a Federal statute known as the Posse Comitatus Act_forbids the use of the military of the United States as a posse comitatus or for law enforcement purposes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act
The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States Federal Law (18 U.S.C. �� 1385) passed in 1878 after the end of Reconstruction, and was intended to prohibit Federal troops from supervising elections in former Confederate states.
It generally prohibits Federal military personnel and units of the United States National Guard under Federal authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the United States, except where expressly authorized by the Constitution or the Congress. Coupled with the Insurrection Act, the powers of the Federal government to use the US military for law enforcement are limited.
The original act referred only to the Army. The Air Force was added in 1956, and the Navy and the Marine Corps have been included by a regulation of the Department of Defense. This law is mentioned, quite often, whenever it appears that the Department of Defense is interfering in domestic disturbances.
ATF Special Response team member David Millen looking for weapons under a house in New Orleans Saturday Sept. 17, 2005. The team had reports of weapons at that house, but none were found. There is a heavy presence of police and military police in the area since Hurricane Kitrina hit the Crescent City. (AP Photo/Ann Heisenfelt)
Historic changes possible in military's role in domestic emergencies
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Bush's push to give the military a bigger role in responding to major disasters like Hurricane Katrina could lead to a loosening of legal limits on the use of federal troops on U.S. soil.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-09-17-katrina-military_x.htm
http://www.geocities.com/northstarzone/KATRINA1.html |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:30 am Post subject: Re: Sheehan:...pull our troops out of occupied New Orleans . |
|
|
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Quote: |
| ...George Bush needs to stop talking, admit the mistakes of his all around failed administration, pull our troops out of occupied New Orleans and Iraq, and excuse his self from power . The only way America will become more secure is if we have a new administration that cares about Americans even if they don't fall into the top two percent of the wealthiest. |
http://www.michaelmoore.com/mustread/index.php?id=503 |
The occupied NO thing is a bit much at this point. However, the administration is looking at attmpting to allow an expanded role for the military which would further erode our ability to defend against a corrupt leadership. That IS a big deal, and perhaps she's overreacting to an eventual possibility.
And good ol' Dub stepping down would do wonders for the world, so can't beef with her on that! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:36 pm Post subject: Re: Sheehan:...pull our troops out of occupied New Orleans . |
|
|
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Quote: |
| ...George Bush needs to stop talking, admit the mistakes of his all around failed administration, pull our troops out of occupied New Orleans and Iraq, and excuse his self from power . The only way America will become more secure is if we have a new administration that cares about Americans even if they don't fall into the top two percent of the wealthiest. |
http://www.michaelmoore.com/mustread/index.php?id=503 |
The occupied NO thing is a bit much at this point. However, the administration is looking at attmpting to allow an expanded role for the military which would further erode our ability to defend against a corrupt leadership. That IS a big deal, and perhaps she's overreacting to an eventual possibility.
And good ol' Dub stepping down would do wonders for the world, so can't beef with her on that! |
That lady is a whacko or worse. She is also trying to use the national disaster for her own political gain.
I think the US might need the military for a disaster. I don't think it is such any big deal. I think the US faces a lot bigger risks from national disasters than from any US president trying to take over. Do you know of a case when any president used the miltiary to take control of the country?
Really how would Bush quiting do wonders for the world? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: Sheehan:...pull our troops out of occupied New Orleans . |
|
|
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Quote: |
| ...George Bush needs to stop talking, admit the mistakes of his all around failed administration, pull our troops out of occupied New Orleans and Iraq, and excuse his self from power . The only way America will become more secure is if we have a new administration that cares about Americans even if they don't fall into the top two percent of the wealthiest. |
http://www.michaelmoore.com/mustread/index.php?id=503 |
The occupied NO thing is a bit much at this point. However, the administration is looking at attmpting to allow an expanded role for the military which would further erode our ability to defend against a corrupt leadership. That IS a big deal, and perhaps she's overreacting to an eventual possibility.
And good ol' Dub stepping down would do wonders for the world, so can't beef with her on that! |
That lady is a whacko or worse. She is also trying to use the national disaster for her own political gain.
I think the US might need the military for a disaster. I don't think it is such any big deal. I think the US faces a lot bigger risks from national disasters than from any US president trying to take over. Do you know of a case when any president used the miltiary to take control of the country?
Really how would Bush quiting do wonders for the world? |
Joo, when are you ever going to fully answer any post?  It's no big deal that so many of our liberties have been eroded? Ir's no big deal that the use of the US military solely for external protection may change to being used for internal issues? There was a very, very good reason... actually many good reasons... for limiting the military powers of the government, particularly at the time the constitution was written. Look at all the stuff going on around the world where a goverment uses its military against its own. You would seriously welcome this possibility in the US?
You ask: Do you know of a case when any president used the miltiary to take control of the country?
It is precisely to prevent it that the laws are what they are. Is that not obvious? As for Bush... why do you even ask given the commentary from me on these forums? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: Sheehan:...pull our troops out of occupied New Orleans . |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Joo, when are you ever going to fully answer any post? It's no big deal that so many of our liberties have been eroded? |
I think I do answer most of what you write. Let me know what I don't answer.
really like what. I dont' think many of our liberites have been eroded. even with the Patriot act the US is one of the most free and tolerant nations in the world/
Compared with the world situation nowadays US actions are very reasonable. No conspiracy.
| Quote: |
| Ir's no big deal that the use of the US military solely for external protection may change to being used for internal issues? There was a very, very good reason... actually many good reasons... for limiting the military powers of the government, particularly at the time the constitution was written. Look at all the stuff going on around the world where a goverment uses its military against its own. You would seriously welcome this possibility in the US? |
I think you are too worried about hypothetical threat and not the real threat the US faces from terrorism.
| Quote: |
You ask: Do you know of a case when any president used the miltiary to take control of the country?
It is precisely to prevent it that the laws are what they are. Is that not obvious? As for Bush... why do you even ask given the commentary from me on these forums? |
What Bush is doing in New Orleans now is wrong ? What did the mayor ask for?
What is the govt supposed to do? You tell us. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: Sheehan:...pull our troops out of occupied New Orleans . |
|
|
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Joo, when are you ever going to fully answer any post?s. |
It's no big deal that so many of our liberties have been eroded?.... ...What is the govt supposed to do? You tell us. |
Joo, sorry, I just can't follow your flow of thought... ...and the repetition and simply standing on: but they were evil!! get's a bit much and is impossible to actually debate. ANYTHING can be justified if you label the opponent evil. Thus, anything works for you... but that's exactly what you seem to be fighting against.
I don't get it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Gopher wrote: |
| She's clearly just playing politics now |
Not just that - she's also bringing stuff to people who need it. From the link in the OP :
we took the Veterans for Peace "Impeachment Tour Bus" into New Orleans after stopping at the distribution center to pick up some supplies in Covington.
Odd how no one here felt like mentioning that.
| Quote: |
| Calling New Orleans an "occupied city" is not fair |
And yet, The Financial Times says :
Military occupation turns New Orleans into war zone
By Guy Dinmore in New Orleans
New Orleans is under military occupation ...
Kuros
| Quote: |
| This woman is unbelievable... |
I don't think what she said is any more remarkable than what is found in The Army Times :
Troops begin combat operations in New Orleans
By Joseph R. Chenelly
Times staff writer
NEW ORLEANS — Combat operations are underway on the streets ��to take this city back�� in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.
��This place is going to look like Little Somalia,�� Brig. Gen. Gary Jones, commander of the Louisiana National Guard��s Joint Task Force told Army Times Friday as hundreds of armed troops under his charge prepared to launch a massive citywide security mission from a staging area outside the Louisiana Superdome
Bulsajo :
Why not try to argue it a little more rationally? For one thing, it would appear that a lot of the same corps that lined up for lettuce in the "reconstruction" of Iraq are now queing up for NO as well ... and should we be surprised?
George Bush's version of capitalism is of a predatory, parasitical kind. It feeds on death, eats money, goes home when the cash stops flowing, and leaves further devastation in its wake. New Orleans, like a rotting corpse, naturally attracts all sorts of flies. Reports have been trickling in that the private security firms -- call them mercenary corporations like Blackwater USA -- which have flooded Iraq with an estimated twenty to twenty-five thousand hired guns (some paid up to $1,000 a day), have been taking the same route back to New Orleans and the Mississippi coast as KBR, Bechtel, and the Shaw Group.
Can someone tell me again what she has said that is different from what others are saying, and why it makes her a whackjob?
Last edited by The Bobster on Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:35 am; edited 5 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well yes, my initial reaction to the article posted was, I feel, justified at the time, but now that you have provided more info which is new to me I suppose I must recant somewhat and re-evaluate my opinion.
(i.e yes, I may have to do a little backpeddling  )
I've no reason to hold to an opinion that predates the new information received.
BTW, Hear about the guy they just found who survived for 18 days on water?
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N18242740.htm
I bet with the right marketing he could give Atkins a run for its money... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
So Bob is Bush wrong for sending the soldiers to New Orleans?
Besides she is putting it in the same context as Iraq which she considers an illegal aggressive war.
She sound less like a liberal and more like a Milita leader. Oh well Moonbats don''t only embrace the far left they also embrace the far right as well.
| Quote: |
Not just that - she's also bringing stuff to people who need it. From the link in the OP :
we took the Veterans for Peace "Impeachment Tour Bus" into New Orleans after stopping at the distribution center to pick up some supplies in Covington. |
sounds like she is campaigning.
Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:23 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
