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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Kimchieluver
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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 Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 6:31 am Post subject: |
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As a finance major I can pretty well say that supply and demand won't affect the profits going down. It would more likely be the 'psychology impact' that privates are now legal with certain foreigners. Thus, they would want to pay less if they know you are legal... and there would be a lot of illegals saying they are legal. Short term, prices down ... long term, high volume and steady income for the F2s and less volume and less profits for the illegals.
Cohiba maybe riding the gravy train soon. |
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Tiberious aka Sparkles
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| Kimchieluver wrote: |
| As a finance major I can pretty well say that supply and demand won't affect the profits going down. It would more likely be the 'psychology impact' that privates are now legal with certain foreigners. Thus, they would want to pay less if they know you are legal... |
My Korean neighbor tutors piano and makes 40,000 won per 1-hour lesson. Same goes for a friend of my wife who tutors math, and she's still in university. As far as I know, it's not too hard to find a tutor for either subject. So why the high fees there?
Isn't it possible that, much in the same way that the cost of marijuana would likely go up if it was regulated, the average tuition fee for English lessons from a native-speaker would actually increase?
Sparkles*_* |
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Kimchieluver
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:11 am Post subject: |
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Good point... the legallity thing is a tricky issue. This is why supply and demand is not the sole deciding factor and is actually insignificant (Given a legal F2 and a illegal private tutor situation). Selling marijuana and teaching piano lessons are apples and oranges. When it comes to teaching, one could say that they could charge more because one is doing it legally and has to pay taxes, on the other hand, one could argue that they shouldn't pay as much because you are legal. When it comes to marijuana, as of right now a selling is a serious offence and it is all supply and demand that determines the price.
Either way the consumer doesn't get dinged as much as the producer. If the Korean law mandates that F2 holders can do it legally, niether consumer or supplier gets dinged. I don't have any references to this but there is not too many countries where marijuana is legal and the ones that I know of you can get it quite cheap. Teaching privates here is a serious offense, even to F2 holders. I have been led to beleive (not on Dave's) that they can really cause hassles for F2 holders who want to renew there F2 status if they get caught doing privates.
My point is the parents are going to go with the cheaper teachers, it has nothing to do with supply and demand. The fine for the parents is negligible in the grand scheme of things. The fine for the illegals is significant. In the long term F2 holders will be in a much better position than the non F2 illegals. Heck, F2s could even advertise. Basically it could go up or down.. it's all releated to how the parents percive the situation. Cheap F2s.. Expensive F2s. Legal or illegal...Illegal is not going to be any more expensive than a legal F2. It would be safe to assume F2s are going to be making a lot more dough.
Furthermore, I have worked at many hogkwans, know lots of piano teachers and have rarely seen any piano teacher making anything more than 20,000 won/hr privately. Perhaps the ones you know are just damn good. Also, they really don't check up to much on Korean citizens doing thier thing. I have yet to hear about a K-teacher of any subject get dinged for doing privates .. I've now been here four years and know lots of Korean tutors.
Not to be redundant and state the obvious.. but the lower price you charge will, all thing being equal, lead to more customers. Not everyone can afford 40k won a lesson, if you are booked solid at that price more power to you , however you might want to give group discounts, fill in a dead time ETC. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Kimchieluver wrote: |
Good point... the legallity thing is a tricky issue. This is why supply and demand is not the sole deciding factor and is actually insignificant (Given a legal F2 and a illegal private tutor situation). Selling marijuana and teaching piano lessons are apples and oranges. When it comes to teaching, one could say that they could charge more because one is doing it legally and has to pay taxes, on the other hand, one could argue that they shouldn't pay as much because you are legal. When it comes to marijuana, as of right now a selling is a serious offence and it is all supply and demand that determines the price.
Either way the consumer doesn't get dinged as much as the producer. If the Korean law mandates that F2 holders can do it legally, niether consumer or supplier gets dinged. I don't have any references to this but there is not too many countries where marijuana is legal and the ones that I know of you can get it quite cheap. Teaching privates here is a serious offense, even to F2 holders. I have been led to beleive (not on Dave's) that they can really cause hassles for F2 holders who want to renew there F2 status if they get caught doing privates.
My point is the parents are going to go with the cheaper teachers, it has nothing to do with supply and demand. The fine for the parents is negligible in the grand scheme of things. The fine for the illegals is significant. In the long term F2 holders will be in a much better position than the non F2 illegals. Heck, F2s could even advertise. Basically it could go up or down.. it's all releated to how the parents percive the situation. Cheap F2s.. Expensive F2s. Legal or illegal...Illegal is not going to be any more expensive than a legal F2. It would be safe to assume F2s are going to be making a lot more dough.
Furthermore, I have worked at many hogkwans, know lots of piano teachers and have rarely seen any piano teacher making anything more than 20,000 won/hr privately. Perhaps the ones you know are just damn good. Also, they really don't check up to much on Korean citizens doing thier thing. I have yet to hear about a K-teacher of any subject get dinged for doing privates .. I've now been here four years and know lots of Korean tutors.
Not to be redundant and state the obvious.. but the lower price you charge will, all thing being equal, lead to more customers. Not everyone can afford 40k won a lesson, if you are booked solid at that price more power to you , however you might want to give group discounts, fill in a dead time ETC. |
Exactly and legals can charge less. Lower prices--more customers. Not always of course, but usually. If this were not true, stores would not offer discounts and coupons and such like schemes to attract customers. Illegals tend to charge a higher price because of the risks. F2's on the other hand, would face no such risk, therefore could afford to charge lower and advertise to attempt to make up the difference. |
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ulsanchris
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Location: take a wild guess
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| How many koreans know that us teaching them privately is illegal? I would say quite a few aren't. |
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Cheonmunka
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 10:49 am Post subject: Emancipation actually |
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I'm pretty sure these changes may be related to married foreugn women's rights with regards to equality in marriage law.
Too many foreign women cannot receive equal tratment in the event of marriage breakup.
So this does not give anything for foreign married men in terms of emancipation in their working life.
I'll say now for any unmarried guys who think I'm talking garbage that actually as a married man, with pre-school aged kids, not being able to pursue one's working desires, ie working for oneself, results in a feeling of servitude.
Without having 200 K to put into my (Korean) wife's hakwon my option could be to open a study room. I cannot. Regardless that I have high school teacher certification, that I speak and write korean, �� �Ͼ�? that I have lived here 6 years. That my kids were born here!
These days I am pondering how to approach this and begin lobbying on my own behalf. 'Cause it really feels like no one else can understand the frustration of: not being able to try to succeed on my own terms, of being ordered by (in fair comparison) unqualified supervisors, of always being a 'foreign' teacher with no prospect of promotion to management, of getting worn out teaching 50 hour weeks for my basic salary, and frustration when I perceive my wife is disappointed every month by her household bank balance.
I could go back East, but who should have to? Korean people get residency in my country and can work anywhere by choice. This freedom should be reciprocated for residents here.
Maybe like the above poster I should just do it illegally. But then, I wonder how on Earth you made 10 mill with a study room??? Surely that's nigh impossible? |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
[...That's only true if you live in Seoul or Pusan. Even if all foreign residents in Korea choose to open a kongbubang (Koreans need to hold a high school diploma to get the necessary business permit), I doubt there will be much competition if you live in a small town in Kangwon...
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I doubt there will be many students if you live in a small town in Kangwon. That's the flip side. How many people who live in a small town can afford to pay 40,000-50,000 won an hour for their children on top of other fees. Cheaper just to send them to a hakwon. |
You seriously can't believe that everyone in small towns live from hand to mouth. Take any small town in Korea and I can find a neighborhood in Seoul that looks like a carbon copy of it. |
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casey's moon
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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Well, this is all fine and good but rather hypothetical at the moment. Anyone call yet? My husband will try to call today and I'll post what he hears when I can, but a few others should call as well. Not only is it possible he won't find the time for it today, but it's good to get information from several immigration officers as they don't always all seem to be in the know.
So come on everyone and try to get your Korean spouse to call immigration today!  |
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jaykimf
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| O.K. Here's what we were told. Yesterday we went to Immigration to renew my work permission-- my one year contract at our school came to an end. Starting Sept.25 there will be a big change. F2 holders will no longer need to get permission to work from immigration. No need to submit any paperwork. You can do almost any job (99% of the jobs in Korea is what he said). The one job which he specifically stated that you cannot do is private tutoring. It's illegal for Koreans and it continues to be illegal for F2 visa holders. |
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fidel
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Location: North Shore NZ
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| jaykimf wrote: |
| O.K. Here's what we were told. Yesterday we went to Immigration to renew my work permission-- my one year contract at our school came to an end. Starting Sept.25 there will be a big change. F2 holders will no longer need to get permission to work from immigration. No need to submit any paperwork. You can do almost any job (99% of the jobs in Korea is what he said). The one job which he specifically stated that you cannot do is private tutoring. It's illegal for Koreans and it continues to be illegal for F2 visa holders. |
Is private tutoring really illegal for Koreans? My son has a K- teacher visit his house once a week to teach him Hangul Nara. She's from a legitimate company with offices that send out the teachers. |
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Veronica
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| jaykimf wrote: |
| Starting Sept.25 there will be a big change. F2 holders will no longer need to get permission to work from immigration. No need to submit any paperwork. You can do almost any job (99% of the jobs in Korea is what he said). . |
So you don't need an E2 to work in schools anymore then? |
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Horangi Munshin
Joined: 06 Apr 2003
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: Emancipation actually |
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| Cheonmunka wrote: |
I'm pretty sure these changes may be related to married foreugn women's rights with regards to equality in marriage law.
Too many foreign women cannot receive equal tratment in the event of marriage breakup.
So this does not give anything for foreign married men in terms of emancipation in their working life.
I'll say now for any unmarried guys who think I'm talking garbage that actually as a married man, with pre-school aged kids, not being able to pursue one's working desires, ie working for oneself, results in a feeling of servitude.
Without having 200 K to put into my (Korean) wife's hakwon my option could be to open a study room. I cannot. Regardless that I have high school teacher certification, that I speak and write korean, �� �Ͼ�? that I have lived here 6 years. That my kids were born here!
These days I am pondering how to approach this and begin lobbying on my own behalf. 'Cause it really feels like no one else can understand the frustration of: not being able to try to succeed on my own terms, of being ordered by (in fair comparison) unqualified supervisors, of always being a 'foreign' teacher with no prospect of promotion to management, of getting worn out teaching 50 hour weeks for my basic salary, and frustration when I perceive my wife is disappointed every month by her household bank balance.
I could go back East, but who should have to? Korean people get residency in my country and can work anywhere by choice. This freedom should be reciprocated for residents here.
Maybe like the above poster I should just do it illegally. But then, I wonder how on Earth you made 10 mill with a study room??? Surely that's nigh impossible? |
My thoughts exactly!!!!!
I really hope what jaykimf was told is infact fact! Man I've been waiting for a fair shake for awhile now. |
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jaykimf
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Veronica wrote: |
| jaykimf wrote: |
| Starting Sept.25 there will be a big change. F2 holders will no longer need to get permission to work from immigration. No need to submit any paperwork. You can do almost any job (99% of the jobs in Korea is what he said). . |
So you don't need an E2 to work in schools anymore then? |
That's what we were told, but you had better verify that with your local immigration office when the time comes.
Fidel; I'm guessing they make a distinction between employees of a company giving individual lessons and private individuals doing tutoring as self employment. |
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ulsanchris
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Location: take a wild guess
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| The one job which he specifically stated that you cannot do is private tutoring. It's illegal for Koreans and it continues to be illegal for F2 visa holders. |
I was wondering about this. Cause I know it is illegal for koreans, except University students, to private tutor. But I heard that a korean brought this to court and the court said the law is illegal. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| ulsanchris wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The one job which he specifically stated that you cannot do is private tutoring. It's illegal for Koreans and it continues to be illegal for F2 visa holders. |
I was wondering about this. Cause I know it is illegal for koreans, except University students, to private tutor. But I heard that a korean brought this to court and the court said the law is illegal. |
Of course, the law would be illegal as it is discriminatory. Koreans have the constitutional right to be protected against discrimination, eventhough the government rarely does anything useful to ensure that this right is respected. |
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