|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
blunder1983
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
|
 Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:55 pm Post subject: Whats up with orignal sin? |
 |
|
Ok the religious slant got me in the mood, and I'm throwing out the question which until is explained to me prevents me from becoming a christian.
I do believe in a higher power, and I believe they are a benevolent entity. But I cant become a christian simply because I dont believe that Jesus is the only entry into heaven.
I got into long debates with my christian mates at uni about this, none managed to answer the question well...
Lets look at some people
Criminal who broke into a house murdered someone, during their stay in prison found Jesus, and genuinely repented their sins. -> Heaven
Fair enough, I think its a good sign that god is willing to forgive and being omnipotent then he can see if the person is genuine in their change of ways.
(Any other religion) man, respected doctor, gives to the poor and is a faithful husband -> Hell
Hang on a sec, this is a GOOD guy sure he must have done somethings bad but doesnt his honest heart and good deeds exonerate him? And lets face it, hell isnt a MINOR punishment is it, perhaps purgatory for a couple of years and then heaven, just for god to explain Christianity WAS right but hell???
Child dying in childbirth -> Hell
This is the real one which makes Christianity impossible to swallow for me. According to my friends they go to hell cause of original sin, now we're comparable to amobae compared to god and we dont kill the son of a murderer for the fathers "sin" so WHY does god still seek to punish us over something we had NO control over. I mean this has apparently been going on forever, he needs to let his grudge slide.
Hell awaits the entire of the Americas until the 1400s too, simply because Jesus wasnt born on that continent. (Although on this point, my friends views begin to differ).
And I've not got any knowledge apart from hearsay really but wasnt "hell" a invention by priests to maintain power? Wasnt the bible (new testament) a select few books from a choice of many? Wasnt Christianity formed amalgating it with the more baser Pagan religion and festivals? (SUNday for example) these are genuine questions where I've only heard half answers.
Oh, and if I am destined for heaven but my non christian family and friends arent I really couldnt take the thought that I was in paradise while they were in perpetual pain and misery, that knowledge would send anyone completely insane.
Ultimately the question is, do you want to live in a heaven where honest, devout (in their own way) people live a life of relative sinless exsistence and then get eternal damnation. Why such a harsh punishment for people who live good lives. If god was truely benevolent then he'd forgive these people, or do SOMETHING to stop other religions. If god wanted us to adhere to a strict set of rules and only believe in one religion, why give us free will in the first place.
There we go. Answer the question and I'll become a christian. And if I DO go to hell, stick in a good word for me with the guy upstairs, see if I can get a day pass or something. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
magicwolfman
Joined: 01 Sep 2005
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:02 pm Post subject: Re: Whats up with orignal sin? |
|
|
| blunder1983 wrote: |
Child dying in childbirth -> Hell
|
The Bible leaves no doubt as to where the little ones are after death. King David gives us the most emphatic statement in the Old Testament as to the abode of children after they die. "I shall go to him but he shall not return to me" (II Samuel 12:23). Nothing could be more comforting and assuring than these words which through him were inspired by God Himself.
"It is not the will of your Father which is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish (Matthew 18:14).
Children are sinners by nature but, although they do practice sin, God does not charge them with sin until they reach the years of responsibility when He then holds them accountable for their decisions. Until that time the death of Christ and the blood that He shed on the cross is their salvation.Hell awaits the entire of the Americas until the 1400s too, simply because Jesus wasnt born on that continent. (Although on this point, my friends views begin to differ). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
magicwolfman
Joined: 01 Sep 2005
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| As for your first example, salvation is not based on good deeds (contrary to what catholics may have you believe). The only way into heaven is through sincere acceptance and asking Jesus into ones heart. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
the eye
Joined: 29 Jan 2004
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| magicwolfman wrote: |
| As for your first example, salvation is not based on good deeds (contrary to what catholics may have you believe). The only way into heaven is through sincere acceptance and asking Jesus into ones heart. |
so do you consider it a 'good deed' to announce your personal judgements and personalize censorship on this site?
or rather, i assume you are doing 'god's work' by stealing TV shows from the internet? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
magicwolfman
Joined: 01 Sep 2005
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:14 pm Post subject: Re: Whats up with orignal sin? |
|
|
| blunder1983 wrote: |
| Hell awaits the entire of the Americas until the 1400s too, simply because Jesus wasnt born on that continent. (Although on this point, my friends views begin to differ). |
No salvation is based on acceptance of Christ into one's heart.
| blunder1983 wrote: |
Oh, and if I am destined for heaven but my non christian family and friends arent I really couldnt take the thought that I was in paradise while they were in perpetual pain and misery, that knowledge would send anyone completely insane. |
This is a tough one and one that I as well as alot of others suffer with. The best answer I can give you is this. It is not comprehensive and is open to ALOT of debate.
Revelation 21:4 God will wipe away all tears from our eyes. Do you believe that? Our earthly relationships will change. A child skins its knee and cries for its mother. But when that child becomes an adult and suffers an injury, he/she does not cry for mother. Why? relationships change.
| blunder1983 wrote: |
Ultimately the question is, do you want to live in a heaven where honest, devout (in their own way) people live a life of relative sinless exsistence and then get eternal damnation. Why such a harsh punishment for people who live good lives. If god was truely benevolent then he'd forgive these people, or do SOMETHING to stop other religions. If god wanted us to adhere to a strict set of rules and only believe in one religion, why give us free will in the first place. |
Man chooses to suffer in eternal torment because he chooses to reject God and all His goodness. If you have nothing that is good (no rest, no comfort, no peace) then eternal torment is your only option. God allows us to taste of both in this life so we can make an informed decision about where we wish to spend the next life. It is unfair to ask how God can send people to hell when He's done all He can to stop them from going there! He sent His only Son, Jesus, to die in our place, to suffer instead of us, so we can have a gift of eternal life without having to work for it. He has given us His written word and His church to point the way (although many times imperfectly in regards to the latter.) If God is the author of all good and people have the free will to follow Him or separate from Him, then it must follow that people will suffer if they don't choose to follow God. In this way it is not a "punishment", but the only option left to God who cannot destroy your sovereign will. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
magicwolfman
Joined: 01 Sep 2005
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| the eye wrote: |
| magicwolfman wrote: |
| As for your first example, salvation is not based on good deeds (contrary to what catholics may have you believe). The only way into heaven is through sincere acceptance and asking Jesus into ones heart. |
so do you consider it a 'good deed' to announce your personal judgements and personalize censorship on this site?
or rather, i assume you are doing 'god's work' by stealing TV shows from the internet? |
No a good deed is just doing good things. It makes you a good person, but does not gain you entrance into heaven. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
blunder1983
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah but hes NOT done everything he can to let us know about him.
A book from 2,000 years ago is insufficient, ESPECIALLY when there are many other religions which also have their holy books, what makes the bible more "accurate" over the others.
If god had come and spoken to those practicing other faiths and then aware which would then be the "correct" one they still continued worshipping their faith he'd have reason to be a smidgen pissed off. (Although I think that eterntity of suffering is excessive punishment for ANYTHING)
Oh and for your statement that "relationships change" if going to heaven means all that I have loved in this life is simply forgotten then its not for me. One might ask, what is the point of living if its gonna be wiped clean when we go to heaven.
Interesting that unborn babies arent destined for hell/purgatory. I'm guessing your not catholic, so do they go to hell too?
Your arguements may well be just, and if that is the case then we are in a sorrier state of affairs than think is imaginable. A god who is that wrathful I wont acknowledge, and besides we only think heaven is great on his say so and hes not gonna say its crap now is he.
MW u've gotta look at your "preaching" I'd say u've successfully converted at least a couple of people away from christianity for life. The inability for Christianity to "evolve" (although evolution isn't real) is the nail in the coffin for it. Radaclists used to be able to cow an ignorant population into submission through fear, now we are more intelligent and people spouting how Harry Potter is the devil and Evolution never happened are destroying their faith exceptionally effectively.
Congrats, at least heaven wont be so crowded. But a heaven filled with self satisfied preachers of that ilk is no better than an eternity of hell. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Demonicat
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Location: Suwon
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hell, one of my favourite topics. Let's look at its evolution:
In the beginning (way the hell back when) there were the Jews. They were a fairly happty bunch, and like the Greeks and Hindus they believed that when you died you went to one place- Abraham's Bosom (the Greeks called it Hades and I forget the Hindu name for it- but it was a beautiful concept: your soul is a raindrop sw | | |
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
