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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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 Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:40 am Post subject: Iran sanctions state violence against gay people |
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Iran sanctions state violence against gay people
Gay Amir, aged 22, given 100 lashes
Iran 2005 - Gay Amir given 100 lashes
By OutRage! News Service
The bruised and bloodied body of a 22 year old gay Iranian, Amir, bears witness to the brutality of the Ayatollah's regime.
Amir escaped Iran after the authorities threatened him with execution for being gay but not before he was subjected to the barbarism of 100 lashes, which left his back covered in huge bloody welts. |
http://outrage.org.uk/pressrelease.asp?ID=314
http://www.andrewsullivan.com/ |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| Wow, and here I thought Iran was a showcase for Scandanavian-style sexual liberation! |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:52 am Post subject: |
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How long til the U.S and allies invade Iran?
Its going to happen... |
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RachaelRoo
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Anywhere but Ulsan!
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:54 am Post subject: |
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Joo, you posted an article a couple of months ago about two guys being led off to execution in Iran for being gay. It turned out that they had been convicted of raping a 13 year old boy who was riding his bicycle. The conviction may or may not have been just - a risk in any country - but there was a lot more to the story than the simple brutality and homophobia of the regime in Iran.
I'm not one to defend the regime in Iran, but I gotta wonder about the accuracy of these reports, which I believe were from the very same website. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| RachaelRoo wrote: |
Joo, you posted an article a couple of months ago about two guys being led off to execution in Iran for being gay. It turned out that they had been convicted of raping a 13 year old boy who was riding his bicycle. The conviction may or may not have been just - a risk in any country - but there was a lot more to the story than the simple brutality and homophobia of the regime in Iran.
I'm not one to defend the regime in Iran, but I gotta wonder about the accuracy of these reports, which I believe were from the very same website. |
A risk in any country you say? except Iran isn't any country Iranian trials aren't like other trials and the charges were probably trumped up against those boys to take pressure off the regime for passing a death sentence against gay kids.
Here is your risk in any country
[quote]For example, Islamic law is used in some places to imprison (put in jail) and even execute homosexuals.
| Quote: |
| In Iran, since 1979, over 4,000 gays and lesbians have been executed because of their sexual orientation. In 2005, after fourteen months of prison and torture, two teenage boys were hanged in Iran for being homosexual. |
http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality
But I guess since Iran is anti US the left look the other way at their crimes.
Wikipedia doesn't put much stock in what the Iranian government claims. Why are you so eager to?
Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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RachaelRoo
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Anywhere but Ulsan!
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| RachaelRoo wrote: |
Joo, you posted an article a couple of months ago about two guys being led off to execution in Iran for being gay. It turned out that they had been convicted of raping a 13 year old boy who was riding his bicycle. The conviction may or may not have been just - a risk in any country - but there was a lot more to the story than the simple brutality and homophobia of the regime in Iran.
I'm not one to defend the regime in Iran, but I gotta wonder about the accuracy of these reports, which I believe were from the very same website. |
A risk in any country you say? except Iran isn't any country Iranian trials aren't like other trials and the charges were probably trumped up against those boys to take pressure off the regime for passing a death sentence against gay kids. |
Perhaps, but what are you basing this claim on? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:19 am Post subject: |
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that the Iranian new agency first reported the death sentence as being because the boys were having a relationship with each other.
Only later was the rape charge added. |
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RachaelRoo
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Anywhere but Ulsan!
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
that the Iranian new agency first reported the death sentence as being because the boys were having a relationship with each other.
Only later was the rape charge added. |
I remember that website, but the original source was exclusively in Farsi. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| I don't read Farsi but the reporting I read and the answer that was given in response to Iran's claim about the boys. |
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RachaelRoo
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Anywhere but Ulsan!
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| I don't read Farsi but the reporting I read and the answer that was given in response to Iran's claim about the boys. |
I don't think Andrew Sullivan speaks Farsi either though. Sullivan frequently misreads his own info - in the last thread on this topic, I noted that his article had basically given itself a misleading headline that didn't coincide with his own facts. I do question his credibility as a source.
You may be entirely correct about the dysfunctional justice in Iran, but we can't just jump to the conclusion that there was no evidence that those boys did commit the rape of a child without more reliable information. Would the entire community sit idly by if the justice system was a total black and white sham? The parents and family of the convicted? Possibly, but such claims require more than what you are offering.
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=42416&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=homosexual+iran&start=90 |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| RachaelRoo wrote: |
| It turned out that they had been convicted of raping a 13 year old boy who was riding his bicycle. |
According to the Iranian state, or do you have some independent sources on this?
You're Canadian right? Have you forgotten Zahra Kazemi already? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| RachaelRoo wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| I don't read Farsi but the reporting I read and the answer that was given in response to Iran's claim about the boys. |
I don't think Andrew Sullivan speaks Farsi either though. Sullivan frequently misreads his own info - in the last thread on this topic, I noted that his article had basically given itself a misleading headline that didn't coincide with his own facts. I do question his credibility as a source.
You may be entirely correct about the dysfunctional justice in Iran, but we can't just jump to the conclusion that there was no evidence that those boys did commit the rape of a child without more reliable information. Would the entire community sit idly by if the justice system was a total black and white sham? The parents and family of the convicted? Possibly, but such claims require more than what you are offering.
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=42416&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=homosexual+iran&start=90 |
Yes I do think the community would sit by were there a sham conviction , Iran is a police state and the victims were gay. |
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RachaelRoo
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Anywhere but Ulsan!
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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I am in no way defending the Iranian government - but all we have are some pictures of a guy with lash marks and some claims from Andrew Sullivan, who I'm pretty sure could not read the language in which his original source was written - and neither can I. There may or may not be more to the story than is presented.
Iran and it's messed up gov't have a lot of problems, but people are still people everywhere you go, and I am not prepared to conclude that they would have certainly encouraged what is alleged in this thead or especially the last one on this topic.
Of course I haven't forgotten Kazemi, but that isn't directly related to this case. The absurd and unjust David Milgaard or Robert Baltovich cases don't exonnerate, say, Paul Bernardo. |
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RachaelRoo
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Anywhere but Ulsan!
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:06 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Bulsajo"]
| RachaelRoo wrote: |
| It turned out that they had been convicted of raping a 13 year old boy who was riding his bicycle. |
According to the Iranian state, or do you have some independent sources on this?
quote]
I found an article in the Globe and Mail which stated that they were convicted of raping the boy. Could be wrong, but it's not a terrible paper. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="RachaelRoo"]
| Bulsajo wrote: |
| RachaelRoo wrote: |
| It turned out that they had been convicted of raping a 13 year old boy who was riding his bicycle. |
According to the Iranian state, or do you have some independent sources on this?
quote]
I found an article in the Globe and Mail which stated that they were convicted of raping the boy. Could be wrong, but it's not a terrible paper. |
there's a gap in your logic Rachel. Think it through.
Who convicted them? The same Iranian justice system which saw a Canadian photographer beaten to death in police custody and found all who were charged (Iranian police officers) not guilty of all charges.
Logic 101:
All the Globe and Mail is doing is reporting a verdict; They're not actually vouching for the veracity of the charges or the integrity of the Iranian Justice system. Unless it happened to be one heck of an editorial you were referring to.
Do you think the Iranian police would trump up charges, and Iranian judges railroad kangaroo-court trials, in order to put what they see as 'undesirables' behind bars?
I know what my answer to this question is: the same as Joo's. |
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