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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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 Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:57 am Post subject: |
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Make something of it. Go ahead!
They will probably tell you that it is an ex canadian who become a brit citizen and thats all there is to it. Can you prove not? Who is willing to make an issue of something that is covered under the national security argument and that won't be easily proven.
Its not as easy as you may evision to work out these issues and do you really want to care? (I mean is it really that important?) |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
| Make something of it. Go ahead! |
Apparently the judge is trying to do just that. So now I'd like to know. And I'm almost certainly not the only one.
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| They will probably tell you that it is an ex canadian who become a brit citizen and thats all there is to it. Can you prove not? Who is willing to make an issue of something that is covered under the national security argument and that won't be easily proven. |
So if you're a now a UK citizen serving in the British Army in Iraq they'll equip you with Cdn-made firearms?!?
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| Its not as easy as you may evision to work out these issues and do you really want to care? (I mean is it really that important?) |
Once again I have to ask- did you actually read my post?
Do I care?
or
Do I want to care?
I thought I made myself pretty clear but I have no idea where you are going with this.
Yes, it may very well be important, particularly for Canadians.
I'll say it for the third time: this could potentially have political repercussions in Canada.
I want to know why the judge thinks these guys were using Cdn firearms. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| Judge Raghib Hasan accused the men of killing an Iraqi policeman and wounding another, [b]carrying unlicensed weapons and holding false identification, said Qasim al-Sabti, the head of the lawyers syndicate in the southern city, on Saturday |
[/b]
They obviously surrended, the question is who arrested them and in what circumstances was it. If these guys were truly resisting arrest, they had the weapons to do it and in the environment of a shoot first, ask questions later. There are more questions raised in these articles than answered.
Just off the top of my head, if you just killed a policeman, obviously out of uniform, otherwise why do it? Would you surrender to the next policeman who came along? You have to have "Blls " of steel, if you do. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:40 am Post subject: |
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I want to know why the judge thinks these guys were using Cdn firearms.
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I went back and re-read the INDEPENDENT quote. What it actually says is:
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| Judge Mudhafar says he is not convinced the two men are British - possibly because one of them was said to have been carrying a Canadian-made weapon - and they may not be entitled to immunity. |
Now, reading this carefully, I think what it means is "the judge thinks the men may not have been British, and it is possible that he thinks this because someone claimed they were carrying Canadian weapons". [I realize this is different from my original interpretation of the quote]
If that's the case, then the judge might not have mentioned Canadian weapons or even Canadian people, but the reporter is speculating about what his reasons might be for thinking the men are not British. And we're not told where exactly it was "said" that they were carrying Canadian weapons. In court, on the street, at a reporter's huddle...?
Last edited by On the other hand on Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| Any way you cut it I'd still like to know who got the idea that Canadian weapons were involved and why, for the reasons I listed in my original reply. |
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rok_the-boat
Joined: 24 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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The judge maybe just saying (or have been told) that as a tactic to make the British reveal more information.
And from what I can gather, the police in this area were not saint - not like normal police. They comprised a strong gangster element and, well, they did hand them pover to militia did they not? It makes you wonder what the police in other areas are like. Abuse of power .... |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| rok_the-boat wrote: |
The judge maybe just saying (or have been told) that as a tactic to make the British reveal more information.
And from what I can gather, the police in this area were not saint - not like normal police. They comprised a strong gangster element and, well, they did hand them pover to militia did they not? It makes you wonder what the police in other areas are like. Abuse of power .... |
As noted already in this thread, 2 foreign journalists in two months have been murdered. Both of them were investigating corruption in the Basa police. Corrupt police probably have found their counterparts in the judiciary. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| The use of weapons from other countries when involved in hidden operations is quite usual. It is not strange or controversial, it could have just as easily been personal choice, of what they like. Special forces uses a lot of different weapons, my friend used to have an old german mauser, that he used. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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I realize that, but for at least the second time (and so again I wonder if you are actually reading any of my posts before responding to them)- Choosing to use a Canadian firearm is an odd choice, it's not the same thing at all as SAS choosing to use Israeli or German or American weapons over UK ones. Tell me of one (1) Canadian-made firearm that is considered to be a 'weapon of choice' and possibly found among special forces.
Anyway, this is the last post I'm going to make regarding the issue because in my first post on the subject I said it's probably a red herring. Everything else has been addressing the very unlikely "what if it's true" scenario.
IF there were Canadian-made weapons it would be odd, and IF Canadian soldiers were operating in Iraq (regardless of who they might be seconded to) there would be a huge political backlash in Canada over it. I'd still like to know who got the idea of bringing up Canadian firearms and- if it wasn't some wierd honest mistake- for what purpose; Why not Israeli, or Swedish or something?
Again, an out-of-the-usual choice.
That's it, I'm done repeating myself, agree or not, I don't care.
I'll wait for further news reports.
Last edited by Bulsajo on Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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My computer is very slow, double post.
Last edited by Summer Wine on Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| one (1) Canadian-made firearm that is considered to be a 'weapon of choice' among special forces. Choosing to use a Canadian firearm is an odd choice |
Why is it an odd choice, are canadian weapons sub standard? I don't know if you would think of some of these picks as a weapon of choice, its just what you are comfortable with. Maybe the guy had been to Canada for training, secondment etc and found that he liked the weapon. It could be simply his preference.
Maybe it was a concious decision to choose a weapon from a neutral state? Who knows and how would it ever be found out unless you specifically ask the guys carrying it, I can't see the Brits doing an inquiry into it for the Judge. I am curious as to how the Judge knew it was Canadian made, do you stamp that into your weapons?
I guess it is interesting on one level, I am just curious why they thought they could do undercover or is that just a bad term or were they a sniper unit who got caught out? If so, maybe Canadians do make the best sniper weapons. Maybe its a Canadian custom job? There are a few questions that could be asked. So I am not disagreeing with you, that I guess it may be of interest.[/list] |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Double post |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:56 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
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| If mideast regimes , elites or clerics teach hate,....... they are at war with the US. |
Are you really prepared to go to war with almost every muslim country on earth, because that is precisely what happens in all of them. In fact, you haven't even got the nerve to stop Saudi Arabia funding their anti-Infidel Wahhabi mosques and Islamic centres in your own country, which teach the necessity of Jihad and the need of Islam to dominate the earth.
That is because even this neo-conservative government fails to understand that the problem is not Bin Laden, or terrorism itself, but the growth of fundamentalist Islam, which is very much the mainstream, and not, as people keep telling us, a twisted interpretation of an essentially peaceful religion. |
The US never had a problem with Islam before world war II.when Europe was killng people of different relgions Islam was the most tolerant relgion.
It is not the religon. The Kurds are muslims and they support the US.
Sistanti calls for friendship between religions.
The problem is evil leaders and evil elites , It is not the religion. |
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Alias
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| It is really too bad that the Middle East had oil. Islam would be a lot less relevant to us today. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:14 am Post subject: |
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| The US never had a problem with Islam before world war II. |
The US had little contact with muslim states until the second part of the 20th Century. Obviously you can't have much of a problem with people you have little contact with. But now you do, and what a hell of a problem you have.
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| when Europe was killng people of different relgions Islam was the most tolerant relgion. |
Firstly, the idea that Islam has ever been 'tolerant' is highly debatable. Just ask a Sikh how tolerant Islamic rulers were of their fledgling religion. Secondly, noting Christianity's past ills and Islam's perceived tolerance does not really help deal with the situation we have now. Namely, the growth of a radical, intolerant Islam that has widespread support throughout the Islamic world. Getting rid of Bin Laden, or Al Zakawi will make not the slightest bit of difference.
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| It is not the religon. |
If you really want to make your country safer, you will have to stop with such PC naivete. To not understand your enemy is very dangerous. They are Islamic extremists, who take their justification from the Koran and the example of the prophet Mohammed himself. Such movements are active in most muslim states and have widespread support.
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| The problem is evil leaders and evil elites , It is not the religion. |
Calling people 'evil' is a handy way to avoid dealing with some difficult problems isn't it? If only we got rid of these evil leaders who have 'hijacked' Islam, everything will be o.k! Bin Laden may well be evil, but he is motivated by a profound religious conviction that he is fighting a holy war on behalf of Islam, and his convictions are shared by a great many people across the muslim world. You get rid of him and nothing will change. There are millions like him throughout the muslim world, and they need look no further than the Koran and the Hadith to gain their inspiration. When Bin Laden calls for Jihad against the Jews and Infidels, he is echoing the call to Jihad that has gone down through the centuries, all the way back to the prophet Mohammed himself.
Why do you still allow your 'allies' in Saudi Arabia, to fund their Wahhabi mosques and Islamic centres all over the US, free to spew their virulent anti-semitic, anti-Western, pro-Jihad filth? Even after the slaughter of some 3,000 of your own citizens, by Saudi terrorists you still have done little to tackle this problem.
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| Sistanti calls for friendship between religions. |
He is telling you what you want to hear, and only someone hopelessly naive would take such a statement at face value. Sistani supports the implementation of Shariah, and with Shariah comes the oppression and second class status of religious minorities. You are well on your way to helping establish an Islamic state, and as we know, such states are profoundly anti-Western, anti-democratic, and prone to funding violent terrorist organisations. But how can this be, if Islam is so tolerant? |
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