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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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 Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| What exactly are you saying or implying when you spell "America" this way? |
Who and what are the "useful idiots"?
Lenin called them "useful idiots," : Those people living in liberal democracies who by giving moral and material support to a totalitarian ideology in effect were braiding the rope that would hang them. Why people who enjoyed freedom and prosperity worked passionately to destroy both is a fascinating question, one still with us today.
"See, free nations are peaceful nations. Free nations don't attack each
other. Free nations don't develop weapons of mass destruction." -
George W. Bush, Milwaukee, Wis., Oct. 3, 2003 |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:11 am Post subject: |
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| igotthisguitar wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
| What exactly are you saying or implying when you spell "America" this way? |
Who and what are the "useful idiots"?
Lenin called them "useful idiots," : Those people living in liberal democracies who by giving moral and material support to a totalitarian ideology in effect were braiding the rope that would hang them. Why people who enjoyed freedom and prosperity worked passionately to destroy both is a fascinating question, one still with us today.
"See, free nations are peaceful nations. Free nations don't attack each
other. Free nations don't develop weapons of mass destruction." -
George W. Bush, Milwaukee, Wis., Oct. 3, 2003 |
So we started on a thread that compared and contrasted Lenin and Washington, and by page three we have arrived right back at Bushphobia.
I'm going to start a thread on "3-4-5 triangles" next week and see how long it takes to link them to Bush. It's like that game we used to play where you'd start out with any actor's name and see how quickly you could link him or her to Kevin Bacon... |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:13 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
So we started on a thread that compared and contrasted Lenin and Washington, and by page three we have arrived right back at Bushphobia.
I'm going to start a thread on "3-4-5 triangles" next week and see how long it takes to link them to Bush. It's like that game we used to play where you'd start out with any actor's name and see how quickly you could link him or her to Kevin Bacon... |
 There's a similar theory called something like the Hitler hypothesis. Start any conversation & see how long it takes until the discussion turns to the loud little guy with the funny Charlie Chaplin moustache.
Anyways, back to the discussion at hand. Was Lenin a mason ? And who is said to have been America's highest ranking Craftsman at the time of Washington? If you'll recall, GEORGE was apparently #2.
Surely you know the answers. Tic tic tic tic ... |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:19 am Post subject: |
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| igotthisguitar wrote: |
There's a similar theory called something like the Hitler hypothesis. Start any conversation & see how long it takes until the discussion turns to the loud little guy with the funny Charlie Chaplin moustache.
Anyways, back to the discussion at hand. Was Lenin a mason ? And who is said to have been America's highest ranking Craftsman at the time of Washington? If you'll recall, GEORGE was apparently #2.
Surely you know the answers. Tic tic tic tic ... |
Actually, I really have no idea. I never looked into the masons or any other society or secret society.
I know that, while at Yale, Bissell rebelled against Skull and Bones and that he talked Eugene Rostow (Walt Rostow's brother) out of it, too. But that's about it. (It's in his memoirs.)
So I'll guess: was Franklyn no. 1? |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:49 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| So I'll guess: was Franklyn no. 1? |
Yep 
He was also apparently a British spy. Hmmmmmm ...
Hey, speaking of Franklin, did you hear about the string of mutilated corpses that were exhumed a few years ago from a house he lived in over in the UK?
Yep, it's true. Think it had anything to do with his membership in the notorious Hellfire Club?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellfire_Club |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 5:14 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| He was also apparently a British spy. |
He was an American spy, and according to Allen Dulles and others at CIA, he was a damn effective one, using secret writing techniques and all kinds of other sophisticated means to conduct secret diplomacy in London and Paris.
| igotthisguitar wrote: |
| Hey, speaking of Franklin, did you hear about the string of mutilated corpses that were exhumed a few years ago from a house he lived in over in the UK? |
Your ability to make these quick, casual links astounds me.
Link this to something conspiracy-related...let's see where you can go:
"My bookmark has a hot Vegas showgirl on it...and"
Last edited by Gopher on Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| Though not a member, Benjamin Franklin occasionally attended the club's meetings. |
As I recall from reading the Daniel P. Mannix book on the Hellfire Club, Franklin's involvement was rather peripheral. He went to a few meetings, not because he was interested in the occult but because certain influential people were in attendance. And, also according to Mannix, he regarded the clubs religious beliefs(such as they were) as laughable.
As for the bodies beneath his house, the London Times(which seems to be the only source available for this story), offers a somewhat less sinister explanation than satanism:
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In the early 1770s Dr Hewson was in partnership with William Hunter, who, with his brother John, was one of the founders of British surgery. Dr Hunter and Dr Hewson ran a school of anatomy in Soho, but after an argument Dr Hewson left to live in Franklin's house, where he is believed to have established a rival school and lecture theatre. Dr Knapman added yesterday: "It is most likely that these are anatomical specimens that Dr Hewson disposed of in his own house, but we are still not certain about the bones' exact age or origin."
Evangeline Hunter-Jones, deputy chairman of the Friends of Benjamin Franklin House, the charity concerned with restoring the property and opening it to the public, said: "The bones were quite deeply buried, probably to hide them because grave robbing was illegal. There could be more buried, and there probably are."
Brian Owen Smith has volunteered to lead researches on behalf of the friends. He said yesterday: "The discovery represents an important insight into very exciting years of medical history. Benjamin Franklin, through his support for Polly and Dr Hewson, socially and scientifically, was very much part of that."
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:13 am Post subject: |
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Ave Maria! What a news piece. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:17 am Post subject: |
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I never looked into the masons or any other society or secret society.
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You should, it's interesting stuff.
Part of the confusion results from the differences between continental freemasonry and the Anglo-American variety. In Catholic countries like France and Italy, the Lodge became associated with radical and anti-clerical politics, probably because outright pope-bashing required a modicum of secrecy in such places. This radical tradition survived in Latin America, with Salvador Allende being a mason(along with Sandino, if I'm not mistaken).
In Britain and the US, freemasonry evolved into a respectable middle-class social club, and most men who joined did so because it was "the thing to do", not out of any commitment to radical politics. In truth, if your average American mason(even an upper degree) met your average Itlalian Freemason, they'd likely have very little to talk about, once they got passed the secret handshakes.
But of course when you hear that a particular club has a membership roster than includes Bill Clinton AND Fidel Castro, well it does sound pretty suspicious. But in reality dwelling on the masonic connection there is a little like trying to find significance in the fact that Roh Moo Hyun and Andy Warhol are both Roman Catholics.
For the record, the most comprehensive article I've ever read on Freemasonry if in the 1966 edition of the Catholic Encyclopedia. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
| He was also apparently a British spy. |
He was an American spy, and according to Allen Dulles and others at CIA, he was a damn effective one, using secret writing techniques and all kinds of other sophisticated means to conduct secret diplomacy in London and Paris. |
I know he was an American. While i've yet to get to the bottom of it, what i meant was that i've heard he was actually working for the BRITISH, acting to serve their interests & overall long term agenda first & foremost.
Even up into the present Britain is said to have a far greater role in the US agenda than what most realize. Do you who actually owns the "private" Federal Reserve?
As far his intellect & ability are concerned i have no doubt he was incredibly gifted. Aren't most psychopaths above average IQ?
| igotthisguitar wrote: |
| Hey, speaking of Franklin, did you hear about the string of mutilated corpses that were exhumed a few years ago from a house he lived in over in the UK? |
| Gopher wrote: |
| Your ability to make these quick, casual links astounds me. |
Astounding? Why? What's the big deal?
I'm under no obligation to provide links every time i point something out. If you don't "buy" what i post, & it honestly interests you that much check it out yourself. Call it against my religion, I'm not here to deceive you or anyone else.
Thanks btw to the Hand who took the time to google it for you.
| On the other hand wrote: |
| But of course when you hear that a particular club has a membership roster than includes Bill Clinton AND Fidel Castro, well it does sound pretty suspicious. |
And what Club might that be? The CFR?
What would your criticisms be? Alex Jones hits an impressive all-around batting avertage.
Moreover, you shouldn't be bullied into thinking you can't use a site's information because of its reputation one way or the other.
You familiar with the Genetic Fallacy?
| On the other hand wrote: |
| For the record, the most comprehensive article I've ever read on Freemasonry if in the 1966 edition of the Catholic Encyclopedia. |
That would be a little negatively biased wouldn't it?
Fran-kiln's Hellfire indeed  |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:59 am Post subject: ... |
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Just to interject, who has read The Temple and the Lodge?
To the beginning, Washington was a general more than a political theorist.
His staus, I believe, in the ranks of presidents, is due to his holding the country together and dealing with things like the Whiskey Rebellion when government could've easily collapsed.
Back to the Temple and the Lodge. There are a great many examples of British generals capturing and releasing people. By the Lodge, they were obligated to follow King George. But, by the Lodge, that's all they had to do. Were they trying to win? Hmmm...
Ask Rhyst Helmut
swoosh |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:09 am Post subject: |
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On the other hand wrote:
But of course when you hear that a particular club has a membership roster than includes Bill Clinton AND Fidel Castro, well it does sound pretty suspicious.
And what Club might that be? The CFR?
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Err, no. I meant the Freemasons. Not 100% sure about Castro's membership, did read about it somewhere but it was a long time ago, can't recall how credible the source was. I know Clinton was in De Molay, the Masonic boy scouts.
My point is that there is a wide variety of people in the Freemasons, and it shouldn't automatically be a cause for suspicion if politicians of varying ideologies are members.
Last edited by On the other hand on Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:15 am Post subject: |
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On the other hand wrote:
For the record, the most comprehensive article I've ever read on Freemasonry if in the 1966 edition of the Catholic Encyclopedia.
That would be a little negatively biased wouldn't it?
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Not really. It isn't exactly a cheerleading piece for the Lodge, of course. But it's written in a fairly scholarly and objective manner, and is by far the most comprehensive short article I've ever read on the topic. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:24 am Post subject: |
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Moreover, you shouldn't be bullied into thinking you can't use a site's information because of its reputation one way or the other.
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I should think it obvious that I agree with the above statement. Otherwise, I wouldn't have posted the link to the Times article.
I don't wanna get into the pros and cons of the infowars site, as I'm not really familiar with it. I'm not saying it's wrong, just not giving my endorsement. I have found that about 99% of "anti-masonic" sources do not reach my own personal standards for credibility, so it's best to be on the safe side. The article itself was from the Sunday Times, and that's what I wanted people to read. |
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