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steroidmaximus

Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: GangWon-Do

Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 5:22 pm Post subject:

Quote:

If you are not happy with the lack of return you are getting for your work, perhaps it is time to make yourself more employable outside teaching, perhaps by gaining fluency in Korean, or gaining some other useful skills. I too, think you are using the word 'sacrifice' a little too easily here.

Hear hear. Don't blame Korea for the TEFL industry, it's always been a joke of an industry.

Actually, I don't blame Korea for the TEFL industry. I blame Korea for the lack of international outlook / worldview, comprehension / understanding of history, and acceptance / tolerance / education concerning different groups of people.

The fact is, I am a teacher. I take my job seriously, even if some of you or many Koreans do not. I love how this has become about how I should change my ways, instead of about the OP, that being that the Korean attitude towards foreigners has deteriorated, and fewer and fewer foreigners are willing to defend Korea. So far, that remains true in this and most threads on this board, and in most of the people I see and talk to everyday. The backlash from foreigners towards the prevailing public sentiment was the original post, and the reasons for it. I defended myself against a racist zealot by pointing out that his stereotypes about me were incorrect; I'm not a hogwon or university cowboy who works so few hours for more money than I made back home while whoring and drinking my ill gotton wages away in juicy bars. You attack this, as opposed to answering directly to the OP about the current climate here. But then again, I suppose your response would simply be: if you don't like it, get out.

That's not an option for me right now, nor should it have to be. This is my point: truly democratic countries work to ensure that their minorities are granted the same opportunities as the majority, not discriminated against or by taking opportunities away. Affirmative action sucks, but the concept behind it, that all people should have a fair shake in an advanced society, is valid and one Koreans have and still enjoy in the very same countries they discriminate against now.

And again, how much does one have to give to benefit others before its considered a sacrifice?

Butterfly

Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait

Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 5:48 pm Post subject:

...... Last edited by Butterfly on Sun Oct 09, 2005 1:40 am; edited 1 time in total

korian

Joined: 26 Feb 2004

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:02 am Post subject:

Quote:

I blame Korea for the lack of international outlook / worldview, comprehension / understanding of history, and acceptance / tolerance / education concerning different groups of people.

i'm sorry but this is laughable. you are married to a korean, and have lived in korea for a considerable time i'm sure. therefore you should know better than to write this 'hills are alive with the sound of kimchi' twaddle.

when has korea even remotely threatened to come close to being a place that contains any of the things you list above? korea is a lot of things but any of those we all know it ain't.

so for you to go on about all these things is just willy playing with his wonka gaga gobbledigook.

i can appreciate your OP, but you then went off on this whole benefit society with your diligent teaching stuff. you need to stand under a reality cloud and hope for a downpour.

you are doing a job that you're being paid to do. just like anyone else doing any job they are paid to do. that you love it and work hard is great but it's a job. they pay, you work. you are not moulding humanity with soft supple hands here.

shakuhachi

Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Sydney

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:59 am Post subject:

Butterfly wrote:

TEFL is what it is, and conditions aren't going to get any better in Korea for TEFL teachers, ever, because it's TEFL, and it gets worse as you get older.

Absolutely right. What I cant understand is people complaining about the pay of 'English teachers' in Korea when they knew what they would be paid before going to Korea. You are only worth what the market thinks you are worth, and if you take the job anyway, then that is what you are worth.

spidey112233

Joined: 21 Jul 2005

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:08 am Post subject:

korian wrote:

Quote:

actually, it is a great sacrifice. I was making less here than I did back home. . .I came for the adventure, to walk about, to see the world, you know that kind of thing. To not grow old in the same place without knowing what else was out there. I never planned on staying as long as I have.

Then I got married, and decided to stay here for the first few years of my children's lives so that they can be immersed in Korean and at least get to know their family. I started working like a mofo so I could have the same standard of living I had back home, so that now I'm up to 60+ hours a week. So now I'm making a bit more money, but I certainly have to work a hell of a lot more for it. I don't get a ticket, and while my housing stipend does cover my rent and a bit more, I paid my chonsae myself with money I brought from Canada. Also, being non Korean, I don't get all the nice benefits such as job security, bonuses etc etc et al. A large percentage of my money is spent or invested here, which of course only strengthens the local economy.

sorry but what a load of bunk. a sacrifice is giving something up. when you first arrived here you weren't giving anything up. you came here for adventure, in your words. that ain't no sacrifice. you were in korea of your own choice to have a jolly good time.

the fact you met, married and had kids with a korean woman is part of life. it's no sacrifice.

and you say you have to work harder now to have the same kind of money as back home before you left, well duh. you're now married with kids. if you were married with kids back home you'd have the same issues.

your reasoning is indeed askew. sure your life in korea aint grand but you chose to go there, you chose to marry, you chose to have kids. none of that invovles any sacrifice other than to that of self satisfaction.

now you're living it hard coz of the domestic situation. ain't got nought to do with sacrifice and all to do with what you opted for. don't get all sanctimonious coz you're stuck with your choices.

EXACTLY!!!!!!! SACRIFICE MY A**!!!!!!

spidey112233

Joined: 21 Jul 2005

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:11 am Post subject:

korian wrote:

Quote:

I blame Korea for the lack of international outlook / worldview, comprehension / understanding of history, and acceptance / tolerance / education concerning different groups of people.

TIS SO TRUE, TIS SO TRUE!!

bigverne

Joined: 12 May 2004

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:13 am Post subject:

Quote:

truly democratic countries work to ensure that their minorities are granted the same opportunities as the majority

That is only true when you are talking about minorities who are also citizens, and this is not the case for most foreigners in Korea. In fact, almost all countries actively discriminate against foreigners in favour of their own nationals when it comes to employment. One of the stipulations of gaining a work permit in most countries is that you will not be employed in a position that could be done by a national of that country. If you are a naturalised citizen or second generation immigrant then that is a different matter.

The fact is that Korea is changing. Due to demographic and economic changes, the foreign population of Korea is likely to increase, and foreigners will no longer be a novelty but a permanent part of Korean society. Of course, there will be plenty of Koreans who will not be too happy about this.

spidey112233

Joined: 21 Jul 2005

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:17 am Post subject:

steroidmaximus wrote:

Quote:

When I read some of the responses in this thread, I feel like I've logged on to some racist hate site by mistake.

this is actually how it starts:

Quote:

HAHA! THATS FUNNY!! youre including YOURSELF as a great sacrifice to this country, with what the war did here for the koreans??? haha gimme a break!! talk about a dumb statement!! so you making more money than you could back home teaching kids and getting paid well with housing, ticket etc. is a great sacrifice to korea????

Ah yes, the loser label. . you makee more moneeeey here whitey.

actually, it is a great sacrifice. I was making less here than I did back home. . .I came for the adventure, to walk about, to see the world, you know that kind of thing. To not grow old in the same place without knowing what else was out there. I never planned on staying as long as I have.

Then I got married, and decided to stay here for the first few years of my children's lives so that they can be immersed in Korean and at least get to know their family. I started working like a mofo so I could have the same standard of living I had back home, so that now I'm up to 60+ hours a week. So now I'm making a bit more money, but I certainly have to work a hell of a lot more for it. I don't get a ticket, and while my housing stipend does cover my rent and a bit more, I paid my chonsae myself with money I brought from Canada. Also, being non Korean, I don't get all the nice benefits such as job security, bonuses etc etc et al. A large percentage of my money is spent or invested here, which of course only strengthens the local economy.

I sacrifice years towards my career in Canada, and I sacrifice a happier life with my friends and family back home so that my family here will learn and grow knowing Korea. I sacrifice not having to listen to backward inbred youngins like you who have no historical sense of their place in the world. I sacrifice my health and well being, so that not only my family but my students will grow knowing something that they wouldn't learn from some jumped up Dokdo screaming w.anker like yourself. These are some of the sacrifices I make, and if you don't understand it, sit the *beep* down and shut the *beep* up and let me school you:

1- the prosperity Korea enjoys is due to western trained Koreans and expats coming to Korea and helping to expand the average Korean's conception of the world and their place in it. The leaders who returned after WWII were all handpicked yes men to American ambitions in the region; they were often embarrassed by their less open minded in-country brethren. By teaching English and making friends with the locales, those who stay and make a commitment help build Korea into a stronger nation by expanding the world view of those we interact with. By sharing ideas (an endeavor which is unfortunately woefully lopsided), we help Koreans become stronger and build a stronger country. We are an important resource, and should be treated as such. Instead we get: "you loser!!! go back and work at Booger King!!!"

2- The country known as the ROK exists because of taxes I and my family have paid for the last 50 years (and before you say anything contradicting this, just think of the terms 'national debt'), and their sacrifices in blood. I don't expect the royal treatment, but I would like to make it through a day, week, month, without some idiot directing unfounded hostility towards me because he/she is incapable of independent thought. Obviously these people never had an English tutor, nor have they attempted to exercise that faculty known as the mind.

I could go on, but why bother? you obviously don't get it, nor care to try. When you've finished thinking about what handbag you want to carry with your pink shirt and white chinos, maybe you could spare a minute to think just why you hate us so much that you insist on insulting us openly in public.

no, i dont hate everyone here, only you coz of your dumba** commnets which are complete bogus and a few others here and there. On the other hand, Korian, i s100% correct. so why not bash him or her like you did to me?? that perosn said the EXACT same thing as i only in different words!! get a life man! you think you sacrificed for the koreans?? what a bunch of arrogant bull!!! like Korian said, no one FORCED you to do anything!! you chose to do all by yourself. and WTF, are you taling about, your families taxes for the past 50 years is a sacrifice??? get real man!!! Rolling Eyes

so i could say the exact same along with anyone else on this board. oh, and you contribute to the community??? PLEASE tell me how?????? tell us, cmon!! by taking out the trash and making sure you put it n those proper white bags????

say what you want about my remarks, but i know the same feelings are in a lot of others peoples minds, just Korian and i are the only ones who got the guts to say anything!!

look up the word sacrifice. ITS NOT YOU!!!!!

EFLtrainer

Joined: 04 May 2005

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:25 am Post subject:

All I know is, '93 I came here the first time: cold already see where things were headed when I left three years later. '92? Things were drastically different. out and back this year.... again, pretty different. We ain't in Kansas anymore...

Red

Joined: 05 Jul 2004

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:50 am Post subject:

EFLtrainer wrote:

All I know is, '93 I came here the first time... '92? Things were drastically different.

Did you time travel?

EFLtrainer

Joined: 04 May 2005

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:40 am Post subject:

Red wrote:

EFLtrainer wrote:

All I know is, '93 I came here the first time... '92? Things were drastically different.

Did you time travel?

Sorry, 2002. I really should start editing before I post! But this is much more fun isn't it? Razz

steroidmaximus

Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: GangWon-Do

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:53 pm Post subject:

Quote:

I blame Korea for the lack of international outlook / worldview, comprehension / understanding of history, and acceptance / tolerance / education concerning different groups of people.

when has korea even remotely threatened to come close to being a place that contains any of the things you list above? korea is a lot of things but any of those we all know it ain't.

you're kidding right? This is a country that actively promotes itself as some fantastic shangri-la through it's school system. This is a country that actively hounds and libels foreigners in the media. This is a country that claims to have 5000 years of history. This is a country that claims the pureness of it's blood is what makes it great, although a simple study in genetics would underline where the ever present snaggletooth and other abnormalites come from, and also how erronous the whole pure blood thing is to begin with. This is a country that gets so surprised when a foreigner can use chopsticks, eat anything with red pepper in it or speak a few simple sentences in Korean. This is a country where foreign men walking down the street with a Korean woman are subject to a tirade of abuse and threats on an alarming proportion. This is a country that doesn't advocate or teach self assessment and self evaluation of the past. And on and on and on. . .

The reason why I went on about the benefit I bring to Korean society is because of the near incoherent ramblings of the local village idiot who made some inaccurate statements about me. The fact is, I don't just teach English, I teach literature and critical thinking to advanced level students who I see as being some of the future leaders of this country. They all acknowledge as their parents do, that none of their other teachers in school or at hogwon teach them like this. The benefit I bring is by changing only a few kids, tis true, but this will have a ripple effect down the line. There are at least 2-3 thousand other foreign teachers like me out there doing the same thing, teaching the future how to be more open and critical in how they view the world, exposing them to ideas and concepts they'd be woefully unaware of. In school, most of what they get is Dokdo and the evil imperialist Americans are killing our children with motorized infantry!

I've lived here for 6 years, and when people see me in public with my wife and children, they see a well groomed stable guy who works hard to provide for his family. They see somebody who is responsible and dutiful. In other words, they see something that goes against their commonly held stereotypes of foreigners. Another benefit for Korean society, even if only 2-3 people think differently because of it.

A reality shower? It's the losers on here who rant about how inconsequential we are that need it the most. If we were such unimportant losers, then why is it so many people are talking about us? A problem? Yes, for the engrained trench mentality of the ultra right, since we teach and challenge Koreans to think of their world differently. They definitely don't get this in school or from the TV. As for sacrifice, tell me how many of this new young generation have any idea of the word, yet they have the gall to come out and blame me and mine for their problems. They do nothing except live off mom and dad, who have some idea of sacrifice. Get a job, travel around, live a little before you dare to say anything about something you know nothing about.

eamo

Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:20 pm Post subject:

Quote:

The fact is, I don't just teach English, I teach literature and critical thinking to advanced level students who I see as being some of the future leaders of this country. They all acknowledge as their parents do, that none of their other teachers in school or at hogwon teach them like this.

Well said.

Critical thinking is becoming a bit of a buzzword in the hagwon industry recently. My last two wonjeongnims were always pushing it.

A lot of the more astute parents are well aware that Korean public schools will not produce great thinkers and leaders with class sizes of 35+ and teachers who simply lecture classes and never ask for opinions.

steroidmaximus

Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: GangWon-Do

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:51 pm Post subject:

Quote:

As I'm married to a Korean and have lived here for 6 years, shouldn't it be possible for me to easily become a citizen? Unfortunately, if I wish to become a citizen of Korea, I first must renounce my current citizenship. How does that compare with the countries where more Koreans live?

Red

Joined: 05 Jul 2004

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:23 pm Post subject:

I'd say it doesn't matter since you've already made the decision to leave your home behind. EFLtrainer: Funny is as funny does.

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