Korean Job Discussion Forums

rapier · Joined: 16 Feb 2003

I suppose in summary this gives a balanced overview of the facts, and what should be done:

"there is widespread concern among some people that migratory waterbirds may transmit the flu to other regions and could rise to human flu pandemic. However, there is no concrete proof that waterbirds at Qinghai that may have been infected with such a highly pathogenic strain and have survived, will migrate and be capable of transmitting the virus to other species of birds, animals or humans. However, given the implications to human health, poultry and bird conservation, there is a urgent need to share information on the issues and the actions needed."

http://www.wetlands.org/news&/NewsItems/AVIAN%20FLU_20050915.htm#_Toc112216730

EFLtrainer · Joined: 04 May 2005

igotthisguitar · Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:34 am Post subject:

An Avian flu resource datapage with lotsa MP3s links & the like ...

http://www.recombinomics.com/in_the_news.html

n3ptne · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Location: Poh*A*ng City

I heard on the radio that theres an outbreak in Toronto...

Oh, and read that 140million birds have been slaughtered in Thailand/Vietnam alone over the last two years. A vaccination was just cooked up (haha) in August of this year for H5N1 not sure if its available to the public yet.

The other two strains that are dangerous to humans arent an issue in Asia. H7 has only been in the US & Europe, not recently, and H9 only has infected three people in Hong Kong. They all recovered.

n3ptne · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Location: Poh*A*ng City

Oh, and I hate to break up a good bitchfest, but...

Wild birds act as resistant carriers that then infect domestic flocks, these flocks in turn infect their human counterparts. The disease spreads in air, manure, undercooked meat, and even cats.

Sooo... in summation, if wild flocks, which otherwise go on to live happy healthy lives, are infected domestic flocks, which I, a capital meat eater, so rely upon to live... then kill 'em all.

Lifes too short to get sick over some bird, but hopefully they'll create a workable vaccine and we can all get on with the love/hate relationship between me and tree-hugging hippies. Anyway, there haven't been very many deaths (birds excluded, but sorry, we're more evolved) so I don't see why everyone is getting so pissy. Plus its a treatable disease that has a decent survival rate for healthy adults.

Now what sucks is that you can't test to see if someone has it except in a level 3 biosafety lab, which I imagine aren't all too common in the ROK. That's scary.

igotthisguitar · Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 11:43 pm Post subject:

Bush Considers Military Role in Flu Fight
By JENNIFER LOVEN, Associated Press Writer
Tue Oct 4,11:03 PM ET

WASHINGTON - President Bush, stirring debate on the worrisome possibility of a bird flu pandemic, suggested dispatching American troops to enforce quarantines in any areas with outbreaks of the killer virus.

Bush asserted aggressive action could be needed to prevent a potentially crippling U.S. outbreak of a bird flu strain that is sweeping through Asian poultry and causing experts to fear it could become the next deadly pandemic. Citing concern that state and local authorities might be unable to contain and deal with such an outbreak, Bush asked Congress to give him the authority to call in the military.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051005/ap_on_he_me/bush_avian_flu;_ylt=AjSmy5bcsYnj74aWU2_PCGUDW7oF;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

The president has already indicated he wants to give the armed forces the lead responsibility for conducting search-and-rescue operations and sending in supplies after massive natural disasters and terrorist attacks — a notion that could require a change in law and that even some in the Pentagon have reacted to skeptically. The idea raised the startling-to-some image of soldiers cordoning off communities hit by disease.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

rapier · Joined: 16 Feb 2003

EFLtrainer · Joined: 04 May 2005

n3ptne · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Location: Poh*A*ng City

Manner of Speaking · Joined: 09 Jan 2003

Manner of Speaking · Joined: 09 Jan 2003

rapier · Joined: 16 Feb 2003

I have already shown, backed by uncountable evidence, that

a) There are no cases of wild birds carrying bird flu.
b)There are no cases of wild birds infecting domestic poultry.
c) There are no cases of wild birds infecting humans.
d)There are no cases of migrating birds testing positive for bird flu, despite much research and testing.
e) Wild birds have however been infected by domestic flocks. Whereupon they have died rapidly without spreading the disease. Because they have lower resistance.
f) Domestic poultry has been proven to carry the disease without symptoms.
g) Outbreaks follow the path of poultry transport and distribution networks.
h) Outbreaks do not follow the migration routes of wild birds.
i) The problem is clearly with the domestic poultry industry, no matter how desperately you hunt for any shred of evidence to incriminate wild birds.

I agree, its a sort of irresistible romantic illusion, the Hitchcockesque idea that big flocks of winged, diseased rodents are invading from the skies, dealing death en masse. And how heroic and fun it would be to take up shotguns and blow away everything that moves. But lets just stick to science. Stop ignoring the huge amount of proof against the rotten poultry business, and stop trying to scapegoat the last remnant populations of our worlds threatened biodiversity.

This is where Bird flu has been found. This is the problem: keeping poultry in highly unnatural and overcrowded, unsanitary conditions. Not cooking or washing it properly before eating:Transporting finches and mynas in terrible conditions where 90% of them die, for the cage bird industry. Some cases of bird flu were caused by people digging up dead, buried and rotting chickens and then eating them.

All of this is a far cry from healthy wild birds in their natural environment- that live in isolation, holding their own separate territories, eating natural wild food.

So, drop your hysterical and unfounded claims.

n3ptne · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Location: Poh*A*ng City

Dude, I don�t even have the time or energy to read your post... see if you can follow me.

A resistant carrier is EXACTLY the same as someone who carries a recessive gene. That is to say, they appear to be perfectly healthy... except the infect species with lower resistances.

Now, while you and your pseudo-nonscientific-BS won't address this issue, this is the very heart of what the *scientists* are discussing. That is to say, quite simply, that wild flocks are recessively carrying the disease and infecting domesticated animals.

What that means to me, a human, is simple... The birds I depend on to live, or eat, are becoming increasingly infected due to the migratory pattern of passive carriers who are otherwise unsick.

There's no doubt that little to no scientific evidence exists that these animals are responsible for infecting humans, or that they pose a direct threat to mankind. On the other hand... those people who have the three letters proceeding their names are quite emphatic in the belief that these otherwise innocent animals... are responsible for infecting the flocks that do pose a direct threat to mankind.

You see Rapier, while we may not agree... the people who are in power think like me, and the evidence is in the fact that over the last two years 140million birds have been slaughtered to prevent the wide spread pandemic of avian flu. You can cry all you want, but what matters is that the people who make a difference... think like me.

Having said that, I'll leave you to "systematically disproving" whatever it is you feel that needs proving... on an online message board. Though I will say one thing: I'm glad you're sphere of influence is here, and not in international pathogenic control. I feel much safer. Salut.