|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
|
 Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:05 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Quote: |
| I'm pretty sure exposed as used here means participated in. But, yes, typically poorly written. |
So 71% of Korean high school girls have worked in prostitution? At the risk of sounding like a starry-eyed apologist, I gotta say I'm a bit skeptical about that.
EDIT: If exposed to means "participated in", how come the same report says that only 2% of high school students have "experienced" the sex industry? If 71% of girls have worked as prostitutes, the numbers should be a lot higher. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
I said "claim" as you did not provide any proof. And I don't imply. Had I wanted to convey the impression that you were being less than forthright I would have come out and said so.
Glad to see you are making new friends right and left though. It lessens the number of people willing to take you seriously. |
Stating a fact cannot be construed as claim. Thus, no matter how you slice it, you knew you were questioning the veracity of the statement. Unles you don;t understand the meaningof the word? That you are ignorant of the situation is on you, not me. If you wanted to simply ask for the info, you could have. You could have asked where you could find info on that. You could have said you hadn't heard that and would like more info. You didn't. You said it was my claim. It is not. Thus, if anyone was lazy or rude, it was you. |
Do you know the difference between a claim and a fact? Obviously not.
So here goes: A claim is a statement without any evidence to back it up
A fact is an event that occurs. You made your statement without any supporting evidence. That makes it an allegation (unproven) or claim.
It was YOUR claim since you made it. Simply because you call it a fact doesn't mean it is. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| It was YOUR claim since you made it. Simply because you call it a fact doesn't mean it is. |
Cool off. The evidence has been given here, though by RR instead of the guy who said it - it was not such a wild "claim" to start with, and it WAS presented solely as accessory to other statements which were (in fact) on topic. Since the facts are now known, it is also clear that the "claim" was nothing more than what we have seen before many times as being true. If you must bicker, why not also thrown in a word or two about what the thread is really discussing?
In fact, I rather agree that Korean society is excessively materialistic. I think it has a lot ot do with poverty that existed in the past, a past which is still within memory of the older generation. The consumerist society spawned by the economic growth entails a lot of willful forgetting of some of the core values of Korean culture in the effort to mimic and acheive the kind of comfort and affluence we in the West have long taken for granted. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Do you know the difference between a claim and a fact? Obviously not.
So here goes: A claim is a statement without any evidence to back it up
A fact is an event that occurs. You made your statement without any supporting evidence. That makes it an allegation (unproven) or claim.
It was YOUR claim since you made it. Simply because you call it a fact doesn't mean it is. |
Please, don't be a fool. Because you didn't know about it, it wasn't fact? I made no claim. Look it up again. I stated a FACT of which YOU were unaware. It is not necessary to post reams of infomation on a TANGENTIAL point that is FACT. ALL you had to do was ask for more info. You did not do that. If you had, in fact, assumed I was being truthful, that is what you would have done. But because you assume I post with an agenda at all times, you acted foolishly.
You assumed I was full of crap, now you look like an idiot. Deal. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Do you know the difference between a claim and a fact? Obviously not.
So here goes: A claim is a statement without any evidence to back it up
A fact is an event that occurs. You made your statement without any supporting evidence. That makes it an allegation (unproven) or claim.
It was YOUR claim since you made it. Simply because you call it a fact doesn't mean it is. |
Please, don't be a fool. Because you didn't know about it, it wasn't fact? I made no claim. Look it up again. I stated a FACT of which YOU were unaware. It is not necessary to post reams of infomation on a TANGENTIAL point that is FACT. ALL you had to do was ask for more info. You did not do that. If you had, in fact, assumed I was being truthful, that is what you would have done. But because you assume I post with an agenda at all times, you acted foolishly.
You assumed I was full of crap, now you look like an idiot. Deal. |
No you stated a claim. And when I asked for your proof, you made the assumption that I was posting with an agenda, rather than merely asking for information (which in fact I was). And since you were unable to give proof you made some personal attacks. It was left for Real Reality to give some rather dubious and contradictory stats. You assumed I was posting with an agenda and now you look hostile and (as another poster pointed out) obnoxious. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Do you know the difference between a claim and a fact? Obviously not.
So here goes: A claim is a statement without any evidence to back it up
A fact is an event that occurs. You made your statement without any supporting evidence. That makes it an allegation (unproven) or claim.
It was YOUR claim since you made it. Simply because you call it a fact doesn't mean it is. |
Please, don't be a fool. Because you didn't know about it, it wasn't fact? I made no claim. Look it up again. I stated a FACT of which YOU were unaware. It is not necessary to post reams of infomation on a TANGENTIAL point that is FACT. ALL you had to do was ask for more info. You did not do that. If you had, in fact, assumed I was being truthful, that is what you would have done. But because you assume I post with an agenda at all times, you acted foolishly.
You assumed I was full of crap, now you look like an idiot. Deal. |
No you stated a claim. And when I asked for your proof, you made the assumption that I was posting with an agenda, rather than merely asking for information (which in fact I was). And since you were unable to give proof you made some personal attacks. It was left for Real Reality to give some rather dubious and contradictory stats. You assumed I was posting with an agenda and now you look hostile and (as another poster pointed out) obnoxious. |
A claim?? How the hell can facts of recent history be called a claim? You seriously consider the two to have equal meaning? If I say, "Two girls were run down by a US military vehicle" is that a fact or a cliam?
Jesus... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
TheUrbanMyth wrote:
EFLtrainer wrote:
TheUrbanMyth wrote:
Do you know the difference between a claim and a fact? Obviously not.
So here goes: A claim is a statement without any evidence to back it up
A fact is an event that occurs. You made your statement without any supporting evidence. That makes it an allegation (unproven) or claim.
It was YOUR claim since you made it. Simply because you call it a fact doesn't mean it is.
Please, don't be a fool. Because you didn't know about it, it wasn't fact? I made no claim. Look it up again. I stated a FACT of which YOU were unaware. It is not necessary to post reams of infomation on a TANGENTIAL point that is FACT. ALL you had to do was ask for more info. You did not do that. If you had, in fact, assumed I was being truthful, that is what you would have done. But because you assume I post with an agenda at all times, you acted foolishly.
You assumed I was full of crap, now you look like an idiot. Deal.
No you stated a claim. And when I asked for your proof, you made the assumption that I was posting with an agenda, rather than merely asking for information (which in fact I was). And since you were unable to give proof you made some personal attacks. It was left for Real Reality to give some rather dubious and contradictory stats. You assumed I was posting with an agenda and now you look hostile and (as another poster pointed out) obnoxious.
A claim?? How the hell can facts of recent history be called a claim? You seriously consider the two to have equal meaning? If I say, "Two girls were run down by a US military vehicle" is that a fact or a cliam?
Jesus... |
Actually, you guys are kind of arguing over a phantom issue here.
All EFLTrainer said in the first place was:
| Quote: |
| kids prostituting themselves for money to buy clothes (copying the Japanese), |
He didn't say HOW MANY kids were prostituting themselves, beyond using the plural, which indicates only that it would be more than one. Sooo, if Urban Myth can agree that it is likely that there are at least two kids in all of South Korea who have worked as prostitutes, we can have agreement.
If EFLTrainer wants to go further than that and say that there are a substantial number of kids working as prostitutes, I'd be happy to listen to his argument. However, I'm gonna need to see something more credible than Real Reality's article, which is worded in a very ambiguous fashion. Suffice to say I am not convinced that 71% of middle and high school girls have worked as prostitutes. And as for the 2% of middle and high school students(no gender specified) who have "experienced the sex indusrty", again I think we need to know how the terms are being used. Does "experiencing the sex industry" include being a customer of prostitutes? If so, then I'd say the stats are pretty useless in telling us how many Korean minors are working as prostitutes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| On the other hand wrote: |
| Actually, you guys are kind of arguing over a phantom issue here. |
No kiding!! Idiotic from the start, and not getting any better! It was a minor point supporting an aside... for chrissake.
| Quote: |
All EFLTrainer said in the first place was:
| Quote: |
| kids prostituting themselves for money to buy clothes (copying the Japanese), |
He didn't say HOW MANY kids were prostituting themselves, beyond using the plural, which indicates only that it would be more than one. Sooo, if Urban Myth can agree that it is likely that there are at least two kids in all of South Korea who have worked as prostitutes, we can have agreement.
If EFLTrainer wants to go further than that and say that there are a substantial number of kids working as prostitutes, |
All I was doing was listing a small example of negative imported behaviors because I noted long ago that while Koreans complain about the negative effects of foreign culture, they seem to import a lot of the worst ones, while ignoring some of the best.
But it turned into this dung heap because he wants to call a fact a claim.
Note: If it's important to you, look it up rather than questioning the veracity of a fellow poster.
NOTE II: It is not necessary nor worth my time to search and find supporting evidence for a known fact that is common knowledge. Particularly on a message board!! REMEMBER THIS.
Just to end this once and for all:
From Merriam-Webster
Claim
3 a : to assert in the face of possible contradiction
NOTE: There was no possible contradiction.
Fact
1 : a thing done: as a obsolete : FEAT b : CRIME <accessory after the fact> c archaic : ACTION
2 archaic : PERFORMANCE, DOING
3 : the quality of being actual : ACTUALITY <a question of fact hinges on evidence>
4 a : something that has actual existence <space exploration is now a fact> b : an actual occurrence <prove the fact of damage>
| Quote: |
| It's the world's oldest profession, and in South Korea it's a recession-proof industry that contributes more to the nation's economy than the agriculture and fisheries industries combined. And it's expanding. The Ministry of Gender Equality estimates that South Korea's sex industry generates profits in excess of US$22 billion a year, while employing some 500,000 women and girls. But non-governmental organizations and civic groups suggest the number may be even higher, concluding that if all informal venues of prostitution, such as the myriad wonjokyoje, or younger girls "dating" older men for cash, were factored in, the number of prostitutes could well exceed a million. |
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Korea/FE26Dg03.html |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
All I asked for was some supporting statistics. But now that you have actually offered some proof in the form of a newspaper clipping, I will say "THANK YOU". I'm not even going to argue over the truthfulness of the newspaper. All I wanted was to see a supporting stat.
There now, was that so hard? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
All I asked for was some supporting statistics. But now that you have actually offered some proof in the form of a newspaper clipping, I will say "THANK YOU". I'm not even going to argue over the truthfulness of the newspaper. All I wanted was to see a supporting stat.
There now, was that so hard? |
You're not going to admit you were intentionally being a twit; that you misused a simple word in English. Fine. You're still a twit. You see, I have two choices: I can A. believe you were being a twit, or B. believe you are a stupid. Well, you can stop being/grow out of/learn not to be a twit, but stupidity is permanent. Which do you prefer? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
