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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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 Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 9:29 am Post subject: Pentagon Revokes 9/11 "Able Danger" Officer |
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Pentagon Revokes 9/11 Officer's Clearance
By KIMBERLY HEFLING, Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON - An officer who has claimed that a classified military unit identified four Sept. 11 hijackers before the 2001 attacks is facing Pentagon accusations of breaking numerous rules, charges his lawyer suggests are aimed at undermining his credibility.
The alleged infractions by Army Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer, 42, include obtaining a service medal under false pretenses, improperly flashing military identification while drunk and stealing pens, according to military paperwork shown by his attorney to The Associated Press.
Shaffer was one of the first to publicly link Sept. 11 leader Mohamed Atta to the unit code-named Able Danger. Shaffer was one of five witnesses the Pentagon ordered not to appear Sept. 21 before the Senate Judiciary Committee to discuss the unit's findings.
The military revoked Shaffer's top security clearance this month, a day before he was supposed to testify to a congressional committee. 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/sept11_hijackers;_ylt=AnI_Fe4Xmu3fYk6d6vUmuaUDW7oF;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl
Last edited by igotthisguitar on Thu May 03, 2007 11:02 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 am Post subject: |
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Alright, IGTG, you got my attention.
Seems the administration wants this guy bad. They're willing to give generals the pass on torture, but this guy gets called up for stealing pens and a past and paid off credit card debt of $2,000? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| ...but this guy gets called up for stealing pens... |
But do you know how much they pay for those pens at the Pentagon? |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| $5000 a pen, but hey, they support a lot of others with just that one pen. So let them have their excesses. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:28 am Post subject: |
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Top Politicians, Economists, Other Leaders State 9/11 Possibly an Inside Job
Morgan Reynolds, Former Chief Economist under President Bush
Paul Craig Roberts, Assistant Secretary of Treasury under Pres. Reagan
U.S. Senator Mark Dayton
U.S. Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney
Professor David Ray Griffin, Renowned Theologian
Robert M. Bowman, Head of Advanced Space Programs, Dept. of Defense
Michael Meacher, UK Minister of Environment (1997 - 2003)
Catherine Austin Fitts, Assistant Secretary of Housing For President Bush
9/11 statement signed by 100 prominent Americans, 40 9/11 family members
http://www.wanttoknow.info/050908insidejob911 |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:41 am Post subject: |
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It doesn't matter how many people believe what you do (or who they are, for that matter). Unless you have direct evidence to cite, then you're just talking about beliefs. You can even believe that the Sun revolves around the Earth if you want to.
And, in any case, if they all jumped off a cliff, would you follow them? |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:04 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
It doesn't matter how many people believe what you do (or who they are, for that matter). Unless you have direct evidence to cite, then you're just talking about beliefs. You can even believe that the Sun revolves around the Earth if you want to.
And, in any case, if they all jumped off a cliff, would you follow them?[/ |
Sorry, I'm a bit dim. Who are you referring to believing what?
Who is "they" all jumping off a cliff? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:07 am Post subject: |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
| Quote: |
It doesn't matter how many people believe what you do (or who they are, for that matter). Unless you have direct evidence to cite, then you're just talking about beliefs. You can even believe that the Sun revolves around the Earth if you want to.
And, in any case, if they all jumped off a cliff, would you follow them?[/ |
Sorry, I'm a bit dim. Who are you referring to believing what?
Who is "they" all jumping off a cliff? |
This refers to Igotthisguitar's post, which comes just before my remarks that you cite here.
"Belief" refers to those who Igotthisguitar keeps citing as "proof" that 9/11 was "an inside job." |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:20 am Post subject: ... |
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| Quote: |
This refers to Igotthisguitar's post, which comes just before my remarks that you cite here.
"Belief" refers to those who Igotthisguitar keeps citing as "proof" that 9/11 was "an inside job." |
Hmm. I see the word "possibly" in his post. Where do you see "proof"?
Even if the word "possibly" were omitted, how would that suggest that Guitarman sees it as proof?
Do you have any comment on the man "lifted" of clearance the day before he was to testify?
We've already discussed Able Danger on another thread. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:32 am Post subject: |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
| Do you have any comment on the man "lifted" of clearance the day before he was to testify? |
Absolutely. The allegations, if substantiated by direct evidence, would make revoking his clearances appropriate. (The govt is extremely uptight and Puritanical when it comes to security clearances. I don't agree with it, but they didn't invent this just to harass this officer.)
And I've seen no references to any direct evidence that would tend to substantiate his lawyer's claim that the Pentagon is attempting to undermine his credibility.
Do you have any links or other references to such direct evidence? |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:47 am Post subject: ... |
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http://www.mysanantonio.com/opinion/columnists/jgurwitz/stories/MYSA100505.02O.gurwitz.11d88ef4.html
Going back to the old thread, the NYT article shows as missing.
Above is a new link 7 hours old.
Here is the crux of it:
| Quote: |
| According to Lt. Col. Tony Shaffer, now a retired Army intelligence officer, members of the Able Danger effort tried on three occasions to convey information about Atta and the al-Qaida cell to the FBI. Each time, Pentagon lawyers nixed the effort to share information. |
To take it a step further, I don't think that explosives were planted in the WTC. I think that, rather than melting, the steel became brittle. According to meloitions experts, the natural way for a building to fall is straight down.
That said, see Bush's attitude in Fahrenhit 9/11 (shame on me for mentioning this source, but it really doesn't hinge on my point).
My point would be that Bush wanted war from the get-go. I'm not claiming to be a seer, but I told people in 2000 that a vote for Bush is a vote for war. And I don't think that was a very dubious claim on either side of the political aisle. Didn't you honestly have thoughts in 2000 that Bush would go after Saddam?
As such, I wouldn't point to a conspiracy per se (or in the traditional sense). I would though, suggest that there was a "purposeful thumb-twiddling" at the top in the face of a terrorist attack. In other words, an intentional lack of action to serve purposes. Not even an original idea if you accept claims about FDR's handling of Pearl Harbor.
Emerging evidence about Able Danger supports this.
As do other things. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:51 am Post subject: ... |
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| Quote: |
| The govt is extremely uptight and Puritanical when it comes to security clearances |
So, stealing pens and getting drunk is a fair allegation to bring the day before you're gonna testify before the 9/11 commitee about Able Danger? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:06 am Post subject: |
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(double post)
Last edited by Gopher on Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:08 am Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The govt is extremely uptight and Puritanical when it comes to security clearances. |
So, stealing pens and getting drunk is a fair allegation to bring the day before you're gonna testify before the 9/11 commitee about Able Danger? |
When it comes to security clearances, there is nothing fair about it. Eisenhower said that it's a privilege and not a right to work for the govt when he started this thing in the 1950s. (Nevermind his own wartime extramarital affair.)
If you ask me, it's ridiculous, and they still end up with people like Aldrich Ames and Robert Hansen and Bobby Innman, and many others, including CNOs who invent medals they never earned.
Before "don't ask/don't tell" their use of homosexuality to deny security clearances and even admission to the armed forces was particularly hypocritical, given that gay friends in the States have told me stories I never would have believed when I was in the Corps.
All of this notwithstanding, I just don't think they are especially harassing this officer, and I could be wrong, too, although I haven't seen any evidence to support it.
Suspicion is not enough. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:27 am Post subject: ... |
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OK. Thanks for answering.
One more question: who are "they" jumping off a cliff? |
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