| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
|
 Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:02 am Post subject: Robert Kim, Korean-American spy, plans to come home |
 |
|
Robert Kim, Korean-American spy, plans to come back home
Robert Kim, a Korean-American jailed for spying on the United States won his freedom yesterday spending nine years in prison and eight months on parole. Koreans have been mostly supportive of his cause and critical of the South Korean government's indifference towards his sentence nine years ago.
In July 1997, Kim was sentenced to nine years in prison and three years of parole for delivering more than 30 top secret U.S. military documents to a South Korean marine officer, Baek Dong-il, who requested the information after the 1996 North Korean submarine invasion of Gangneung on the coast of the East Sea.
By Kwon Ji-young, The Korea Herald (October 6, 2005)
http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/html_dir/2005/10/06/200510060012.asp |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
gypsyfish
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Not exactly the same thing, but so did Francis Gary Powers when he was released from the Soviet prison. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Not exactly the same thing, |
You are quite right. Powers did not become a Soviet citizen, then betray it and become a hero in his country of origin for betraying his country of choice. Not the same thing at all. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 9:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Woori Bank Issues Credit Card for Robert Kim
Robert C. Kim had worked for U.S. Naval intelligence before he was arrested on Sept. 24, 1996 on the spy charges. As Kim has neither regular income nor a resident registration number similar to social security number in the U.S. here, he is not allowed to be a credit card holder in this country. Nor is he allowed to have a credit card in the U.S. because he went under bankruptcy protection. However, Woori Bank has decided to issue a card for Kim at the request of his supporters' association.
By Lee Jin-woo, Korea Times
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/nation/200504/kt2005042517071011990.htm
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Not exactly the same thing, |
You are quite right. Powers did not become a Soviet citizen, then betray it and become a hero in his country of origin for betraying his country of choice. Not the same thing at all. |
Kim has many supporters in his home country, for which he related his gratitude. A 'Robert Kim association of supporters' in Korea was formed in July 2003 to give financial and morale support to Kim.
Kim, age 64, became a U.S. citizen in 1973 and worked as a computer specialist at the National Aeronautics and Space Agency and then the ONI for 19 years from 1978 until his arrest. His hometown is Yeosu, South Jeolla Province and he graduated Gyeonggi High School and Hanyang University in Seoul, after which he moved to the U.S.
Korea Herald
http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/html_dir/2005/10/06/200510060012.asp |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 9:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hang about! He has a known criminal record, how could he enter almost any country?
Is he planning to emigrate again? Maybe Australia?  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jinglejangle
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Location: Far far far away.
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 10:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Not exactly the same thing, |
You are quite right. Powers did not become a Soviet citizen, then betray it and become a hero in his country of origin for betraying his country of choice. Not the same thing at all. |
If you're going to choose a career in espionage, why wouldn't you want citizenship in your target country? That would be a great tool, and no more dishonorable than espionage in general. (if you find such dishonorable)
Of course, if he became a US citizen in good faith, and then later betrayed us, that is another matter entirely. Either way we should have executed him. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gypsyfish
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Not exactly the same thing, |
You are quite right. Powers did not become a Soviet citizen, then betray it and become a hero in his country of origin for betraying his country of choice. Not the same thing at all. |
No, but he is looked at as a hero in the country where his loyalties obviously lie and, now that he's been released from prison, he's returning home.
What's so earth-shaking about this? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I feel sorry for pollard(?) right about now. When will he get out? Different strokes for different folks. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gypsyfish
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Summer Wine wrote: |
| I feel sorry for pollard(?) right about now. When will he get out? Different strokes for different folks. |
Why? The guy sold out his country and is being punished for it.
If you gave the keys to your house to a friend who then stole something very dear to you and put your family in danger because of the theft would you feel bad for him? Would you not want him punished?
Pollard, his family, and the Israelis have revised history to make it seem like the only thing Pollard did was help out a friendly nation. Of course they would do that. Every criminal in jail has a sob story. Kim did the same thing - helped a friendly government, but to a lesser degree (and maybe had a beter lawyer), so he got a lighter sentence. I don't agree with the other poster who said they should be executed - that's too simple a solution, thought a part of me is sympathetic.
As I write this I'm listening to CNN report about the newest spy againt the USA for Israel. After Pollard, the Israeli government said they wouldn't spy on the USA. I'm not naive enough to believe them, but their getting caught (even though they say they didn't approach him) drives home why Pollard received such a stiff sentence.
And Pollard received a life sentence. So far, no president has been willing to commute it, though the Israeli government raises it often. You've got to admire how they don't forget their heroes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| gypsyfish wrote: |
Why? The guy sold out his country and is being punished for it.
If you gave the keys to your house to a friend who then stole something very dear to you and put your family in danger because of the theft would you feel bad for him? Would you not want him punished? |
I don't know if providing recon information on where North Korean troops positions were as spotted from spy satelites and high-altitude recons qualifies as putting anyone in danger. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gypsyfish
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It's a house of cards. When you provide information, you end up providing sources or how the info was gotten. That reveals means and methods, which the enemy can exploit.
And I was talking about Pollard when I wrote that. He did put assets in danger.
As far as Kim is concerned, whether you believe what he did put someone in danger or not, he still sold out his 'adopted' country and deserved to be punished. If you see it differently, I want you on the jury when I'm the defendant. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The problem with people like Pollard and Kim is that they put their ethnic and religious loyalties ahead of their loyalty to country of citizenship. In a nation like Korea or Israel, that's fine, but in a multi-ethnic and multi-religious nation such as the U.S., loyalty to ideals must trump loyalty to race and religion. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| gypsyfish wrote: |
It's a house of cards. When you provide information, you end up providing sources or how the info was gotten. That reveals means and methods, which the enemy can exploit.
And I was talking about Pollard when I wrote that. He did put assets in danger. |
The number of American spy satellites and spy planes are publically listed, along with rough expectations of their abilities. Given than spy satellites have been able to read newspaper headlines from orbit since the 1980s, there it no surprise that they can see things well.
Even the spy plane missions aren't mysteries. NK has been complaining for decades that the U.S.'s high-altitude overflights are violating their airspace while the U.S. holds that since they are done at such an extreme height that no territorial boundaries were violated. For example, a 2003 public complaint: http://www.kcna.co.jp/item/2003/200305/news05/02.htm
I don't see how anything or anyone was endangered. Maybe if he was providing recon pictures taken from an operative on the ground, you would be correct. But all that was provided was information learned from overflights and satellites.
| Quote: |
| As far as Kim is concerned, whether you believe what he did put someone in danger or not, he still sold out his 'adopted' country and deserved to be punished. If you see it differently, I want you on the jury when I'm the defendant. |
I agree that in providing state secrets, he should be punished. I was simply disagreeing in that what he provided put anyone in any danger. Instead, it was all information that most of us, if not all, would be surprised to learn wasn't being shared. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gypsyfish
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 5:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
Just because information is publicly documented doesn't mean that it's accurate, true, and that the agency involved acknowleges that the information is factual.
I suspect that we have the same actual information about both of these cases (basically what we read in the papers) so we can't really speak to specifics about assets being endangered. According to Seymore Hirsch, Pollard did release info collected from interviews with people who had travelled to the Middle East and that there were concerns that the Israelis traded info with the Soviets. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/576453/posts
As far as Kim, I can't find that much speculation about whether he put individual people in harms way, but I prefer to err on the side of caution and assume he did, directly or indirectly. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 5:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I wonder how his Korean supporters would feel if an American-born Korean citizen was found spying for the US in Seoul. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
