Korean Job Discussion Forums

[some waygug-in]

[margaret]

Thanks for all the good comments, eveyone. It's so clear when I see other people cry about losing a bad job that it's good riddance. You've helped me clarify my thinking. Even though I have had good experiences up till this, there's no reason for me to put up with an unpleasant atmosphere where I work. I'll try my best to chill and hope it blows over, and if it doesn't, say goodbye.
Margaret

[oneiros]

Am I the only evil person who's knowingly ripped up a kid's homework? Only on a couple of occasions, and only after two warnings ("Put that away. If I see it again, I'm going to rip it up.")

There's always one or two parents who think their darling little angel should be allowed to run wild and do whatever they like. I tell them that if they don't like my classroom management, then they'll have to come to every single class, sit beside their child and keep them in line.

[Yu_Bum_suk]

[Manner of Speaking]

[captain kirk]

The boss should back you up. A good haggie boss knows how to handle the parents and won't bother you with what they think about this, that, and piddly little other whatnot in the precious pandering to their supertot to be.

The boss ought to be on your side and lying to the parents about ripping up the paper of homework or just passing it off to them as 'cultural difference'. Which it was/is.

Or it's a bad student. It pisses me off when they are doing their homework for another class at another hagwon in this hagwon. But the mothers want their kids assigned homework, and given tests.

I think it's overkill. I mean the kid is in elementary school forever then shuffled around hagwons. Who needs homework? Sure, it would make class more effective because they're bringing class home with them.

But there the kid is doing homework for another class in YOUR class.

Anyway, your boss isn't cool. Your boss ought to understand better the situations and misunderstandings that can develop in class. The parents think they're kids are little angels but you, the haggie teacher, have to keep order/them in line enough to keep them doggies rollin'. Your boss definately knows what it takes sometimes to run a haggie class given some tough/spoilt little kiddie personalities.

So the boss is selling you out. Getting carried away not looking after the foundation of her business which is you, the teacher.

[joe_doufu]

In Confucian culture negotiations often being with one side demanding an apology from the other. Remember when the US spy plane crash landed on Hainan Island? The diplomatic hangup was mainly because China demanded a written apology before any negotiation would happen. Often in factories in China workers are made to stand up before an assembly of their co-workers to confess their mistakes/failures before being otherwise fined for them. The reason is that, once you have apologized, you have basically admitted that the other person is in the right and that you must offer some concession to them.

Your boss immediately made you apologize, which shifted the whole negotiation in his favor. The question is now 100% about what you did wrong and whether you have done enough, and the question of whether the boss, student, and parent were unreasonable has fallen by the wayside. Next time, get an apology from the student first.

[Dispatched]

I agree with pretty much what everyone else said, situaution sucks, boss is a tool etc etc.

BUT why did you destroy the kids property?!?! Some have said you may have gone too far, umm, yeah! Confiscate it, sure, rip it up, no way. I'm only mentioning it cause everyone else seem to be focusing on the result and not the cause of your dilemma.

Having said that, don't let ya boss treat you like a child, a simple reprimand sould be all you have to tolerate, anything beyond that is too excessive for what you did.
Hope it works out for ya.

[the eye]

Having been in a similar predicament as you, yet even less to blame for my predicament, i can empathize.

you need to sit down with your boss and turn the table. the kid should not be doing outside homework in your class...or anyone's class.
they know it. the parents know it ...and for sure your boss knows it.

the boss should have stepped on that kid instead of you...

[margaret]

[babtangee]

[Summer Wine]

[Gorgias]

@margaret, I've bloody lost it on students many times including trashing everything in the area around the kid, knocked their desks over, even (accidentally) thrown a kid down on the floor. Snapping pencils is the smallest, I've thrown all sorts of things out the windows, yelled and screamed, ripped up note books and thrown them back at the kid and thrown everything (except expensive computer gizmos-- watch out for those) out the door.

Frankly, most of the kids find it rather funny, and let me tell you, I don't have too many discipline problems. But shortly after starting my second year of the last contract, I talked about Gogryeo (the part of present day China which is in dispute as to it's history), and that has never been forgotten, I still hear trash talk about me: "the foreign teacher who hates Korea." Needless to say, except for the odd Dokdo joke, I never talk about Korean history or anything what so ever cultural or political in class.

So to make a long story short, I go crazy, even bordering on violent on the students, but that time I talked about Gogryeo, that has never been forgotten, I'd say some Koreans have pretty long memories, don't expect your boss to forget this. At least all you did was tear up some homework, not put your two cents in about the Fatherland.

[margaret]

Thanks again everybody.
Here's the update: Yesterday the boss was very nice to me, didn't mention anything else about the incident, and invited me to lunch today (we're going later today). The child has been behaving wonderfully, at least for the last few days, as have the rest of the children in that class. (I don't expect that to last forever however.)
I think the boss is relieved that the girl is still there.
So far it seems like it was worth it to do some kissing up on this.
Margaret

[flint]

The only problem with giving in and doing what they want, especially when you don't want to, is that they will automatically assume that you will just give in all the time after that.

A buddy of mine was working for a school in Cheongju. He hadn't been paid overtime since he started. After the 6 month mark he mentioned to the director that she didn't pay him OT again. She laughed, looked at him and said: "Patrick, I have never paid you OT before, why would you think I would pay it now?". And she didn't.

Even if you are just being nice and doing something for the sake of being nice, they take it as fact that you will always do something when asked. At my last Hagwon, and I hope it is the last one I ever work at, that happened to me. They would need help doing something, and I would chip in, figuring what the hey. They have been nice to me, I don't have anything planned for then, so why not be nice and help out.

Unfortunately, they didn't see that as kindness, but weakness. Meaning they started expecting me to always do it, and to never say no. When they asked me to do something I didn't want to, work Saturdays when my contract explicitly says no Saturdays, they were shocked that I didn't just do it.

In the end it is a business for them, and you aren't a person but a commodity. Once your usefulness to them has ended, they won't hesitate to turn on you. Part of me hates to make that sweeping a generalization, but from my observation and experience this is what happens.

I spent almost 3 years at my last Hagwon. In the end, after they found out I didn't plan on signing up for another year when my contract ended, they became nasty. To the point that they fired me, for random always changing reasons, 2 months before my contract would end so they wouldn't have to pay my ticket home, or severance. Directors, or whatever you want to call the wife-hubbie "we run a school" combination, only really care about the money they make. Which is why they pander so much to the parents, and throw their teachers (both foreign and Korean) to the wolves so quickly.