|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
|
 Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:59 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
It amazes me when I begin to talk about the weakness's of evolution, how mean the conversation can become. Why would I even want to believe in a theory the produces such reactions? The one thing I love about the Lord is His grace.
Regardless,
| Quote: |
| You tend to mix faith up with belief in the supernatural, with a sort of pseudo science into a rich creamy broth of crack-pottery that would make people who think UFOs built the pyramids envious. |
Ummm, ok. Just so you know, I have been in the scientific arena for many years. I am not going to brag on my accomplishments, but I will brag on my family for your sake. My dad's company, www.aqua-pure.com is going to gross 25 million next year. They have pioneered a new water technology that will revolutionize the oil industry. It has great environmental application and is a great stock buy. My aunt and uncles are responsible for great developments for gyro copters.... www.raf2000.com My great uncle actually was a great pioneer in the field. They work with the Israelite army and are helping in the development of military technology. Cool, eh? Imagine that, and they are both Christians who run these companies.
Red, wisdom is proved right by her fruits. When Jesus returns to the earth, you will have wished that you had believed in His love.
So you say,
| Quote: |
| Your entire body is made of inorganic compounds. The calcium in your teeth is not organic. Hate to break it to you, but one is just a collection of the other. |
Do you understand the difference between inorganic and bio-inorganic? Evolution proposes when the universe was first created billions of years ago that it was composed of inorganic molecules and not bio-inorganic. I assume you understand that or have you come up with your own theory of the big bang?
| Quote: |
| Anyway, some years ago... and I'm simply not interested enough to go look it up for you... a fellow took some "inorganic" compounds, zapped it with lightning, and made "organic" compunds. This experiment has been repeated. |
Now you are getting somewhere. You are actually showing evidence for the theory of evolution. Unfortunately, one of the key foundations of evolution has actually been disproved. Yet, evolutionists still cling on to the validity to this experiment. Which is really scary, because if evolution is scientific than it should be willing to update itself when foundational theories are found to be wrong. But as shown in your case. You still believe in something that has been proved wrong.
For more than one hundred years biologists have taught that spontaneous generation of life from non-living matter (believed in by the ancient Romans) was disproven by the work of Redi, Spallanzani, and ultimately Pasteur in 1859. This work was so conclusive, that biology codified the "Law of Biogenesis," which states that life only comes from previously existing life.
| Quote: |
| Do you have a single clue about evolution and how it actually works? I mean, seriously? Cause you dont show it. |
Ummm, really? I could go, but I would like to see how you respond to this.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 11:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm basically with "Five Eagles" on this one. (For one thing his family apparently has big bucks...). Many so-called scientists are full of it, and Darwin's theory is crumbling. One article specifically addressing the "lightning-chemicals-amino acids" aka Urey/Miller experiment is found at the following URL: [/url]http://science.krishna.org/Articles/2000/07/00059.html[url]
| Quote: |
In 1953 Urey and Miller, performed their famous expirement. Many say they proved life can come from chemicals. Their work ties in very nicely with the Big Bang Theory arising from Albert Einstein's work and Charles Darwin's theory of evolution. Starting with some elements presumed to be present in the primordial atmosphere (carbon dioxide, water, ammonia, hydrogen, methane, etc.), Miller and Urey were able to produce some amino acid precursors. From the Urey/Miller experiment it has been hypothesized that random combinations of chemicals present in the atmosphere of the primordial earth, helped along by lightning, produced the chemicals which are the building-blocks of the amino acids. Of course we still have a very, very long way to go before producing life! The experiment did not produce amino acids, only some chemicals which may lead to the development of amino acids... And amino acids are not life either...
We can observe the chemicals were not produced by chance combination. The whole experiment was carefully supervised by the scientists. The chemicals were measured and added at the correct time and the electric spark was administered at the right moment. Therefore, it does not prove precursors of amino acids can be created by random combination of chemicals. It only indicates they may be able to be created in a controlled laboratory experiment carefully supervised by intelligent beings.
The chemicals didn't mix themselves. The scientists mixed them. Proving scientists can manufacture the precursors to amino acids from chemicals they have in their laboratory does not prove that life can come from matter simply by random chance...
One scientist has offered this explanation: "In the stages of the early earth, ammonia, hydrogen and water vapor were more abundant, so they were likely to already be in close proximity (i.e. "combined") during a lightning storm. There's your Urey/Miller experiment with no scientist, no gods, and no spiritual touch. Satisfied?"
Evolutionists and many scientists have a "religious" belief that life comes from chemicals, however, when asked to prove it they find it impossible. It's simply a belief based on blind faith which denies the evidence we see all around us. We see everywhere life coming from life. There is no case in recorded history where life has come from chemicals. Even though some evolutionists say the Urey/Miller experiment proves life can come from chemicals, the experiment only indicated some of the precursors to the amino acids may be produced in a controlled laboratory experiment under the direction of intelligent scientists. When asked to prove life comes from chemicals evolutionists can say some very strange things:
"PROOF: My parents are made of matter. I came from them. I am alive. Therefore, life can come from matter. Proof complete."
His parents are conscious, his parents are alive. They can produce him only because they are conscious, they are alive, but if his parents are dead, although their bodies, the matter, is still there, there is no chance of producing life from the dead parents. The life is gone, only the matter remains, so matter cannot produce life, only life can produce life.
His parent's bodies are matter. The same components (earth, water, fire, air and either) are found everywhere in both living and non-living things. The difference is the spirit-soul, the consciousness. His parents can only conceive him if they are alive. If they're dead they can't produce anything. If they're dead, from the material point of view, from the chemical point of view, nothing has changed -- everything is still there -- but the consciousness is gone, the life is gone. You can't bring back that life, that consciousness, by science. It's that consciousness which science has somehow missed.
It's clear to every thoughtful person that a conscious living being is different from dull matter. If the evolutionists want to prove otherwise it's up to them to produce the evidence. We don't have to prove that life comes from life. We see that happening every day all around us. Everywhere we see every living creature is produced from another living creature. Nature works in a symmetrical manner. We know the changing of the seasons will go on every year in the same way, we know the sun will rise in the morning. Nature does not suddenly change her way of doing things. So if life originally came from chemicals why does it no longer come from chemicals? We don't have a single case ever recorded in history of any sort of life coming from a combination of chemicals. Life always comes from life. That is natures way and that has always been natures way.
As I have my mother and father and have come from them, the whole universe has come from the Supreme Father, God, and the supreme mother, nature. The Supreme Father places the living entities within the womb of the supreme mother, nature, and in time they take birth in the 8,400,000 different species and forms of life found throughout the universe.
This is quite a reasonable proposition and it is consistent with our observation of how the universe works. The scientist's proposal, on the other hand, that life comes from chemicals, is something we can't observe happening anywhere within nature. Nature does not completely change her way of doing things. If life came from chemicals in the beginning, life would still be coming from chemicals now.
So, back to the Urey/Miller experiment. The chemicals did not mix themselves, someone had to mix them. The chemicals have to be combined by some living person. Matter cannot move without the touch of spirit. The big question is where did all these chemicals come from in the first place? Even if the scientists can explain how the chemicals can create life, who provided the chemicals in the first place?
Their standard answer is the Big Bang. "Albert Einstein's theory that all matter can be turned into energy and all energy can be turned into matter has formed the basis of all Western ideas on the origin of the universe. The Big Bang Theory, developed in light of Einstein's theory, maintains that a huge explosion about 5 billion years ago created all the matter in the universe..." Even if we are to accept this, where did the big bang come from? It's a transformation of energy into mass so where did the energy come from in the first place? Science has no answer to these questions.
Thoughtful people will see matter doesn't move by itself. It has to be touched by spirit. In the Urey/Miller experiment the spirit was in the form of the scientists and in the creation of the universe the spirit is God or His servants...
|
[/url] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hey RT,
I started a thread on the da vinci code, to discuss the validity of the gospels.
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=46049
I would like you to comment in that thread, since we have discussed the originality of the gospels. It has a lot of info on the Nicea council.
I guess for me, the experience of meeting Jesus Christ was extremely powerful. However, the prophetic tradition of scripture is truly awesome!!! Daniel wrote the book of Daniel in 1000BC. He prophesied about 4 kingdom shifts. The all occurred. Historians have tried to debunk the time frame of theologians.
Regardless, what is amazing about the bible is it's themes. The all blend to make an amazing story. You cannot take away one book or the bible loses its power.
For example, Psalms 22 and Isaiah 53 accurately prophesies about the messiah and the death he would die. Not only does it happen, but in amazing similarity to the prophecies. Many other OT prophecies connect the NT. For example Joel prophesied that the spirit of God would be poured out upon all flesh. In Acts, we find that the spirit does indeed pour out on all flesh.
RT, not only is the bible solid, but is a powerful message of God's love. To deny the power of the gospels is to deny the power of His love.
If you want to reply to this message, just reply in the da vinci thread, ok? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shortskirt_longjacket
Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Location: fitz and ernie are my raison d'etre
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| fiveeagles wrote: |
Unfortunately, fear is a powerful motivator and it is able to motivate many people. |
Yes. Fear is a powerful motivator. This is why Christianity has lasted lo these 2000 years.
What is it that Christians are always saying? "You'll be sorry when the rapture happens and Jesus comes to take his faithful and you're not one of them!" and "I'll be sorry to see the look on your face when you die and you understand that you're doomed to hell."
It comes down to faith: Do you have faith in God, or do you have "faith" in science? "Faith" in science is easy to come by, mostly because it's proven itself time and time again, and (most importantly) it's willing to say: "We don't have all the answers. We think this is how it works because all the evidence points in that direction, but we're open to change if new evidence arises."
Science isn't saying that you shouldn't believe in God. If you want to, that's fine. But God doesn't provide an adequate explanation of how the world works on a physical level. So we have to go with science for things like curing bacterial infections, engineering cars, harnessing electrical energy, making plastic, predicting weather patterns, etc.
Science and its advances has impacted every human's life, in every culture, in every religion. Its results are the same, regardless of where you are. The same cannot be said for God. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
skinhead
Joined: 11 Jun 2004
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It was only after I found a faith in God that I discovered a respect, even somewhat of a passion for science, rationality, reason and logic. My faith in God opened my mind to the world and to the fascination of science and I learned to acknowledge his work in all things - even the idea of evolution. I have no faith in creationism, or even in such fundamentals of the Christian faith as symbols like the virgin birth or resurrection after days of rotting in a tomb - neither do I believe God is anything like so pedantic as to insist we only believe a singular scripture like the biblical texts. He wants all of us to believe the truth, and whether you think that's all relative or not makes no difference. I find truth in the Rolling Stones and in John's gospel alike. However, if you find yourself drowning in a drug-fvcked hell as I did at age 20, you're unlikely to find a scientist reaching down to pull you back out. So I'm not knocking the church - we'd be far further down the road of destruction if she wasn't around to help. So don't lock your mind down to this 'one or the other' as if you've got the franchise. Shakespeare said a bunch in "there's more in heaven and earth, Horatio, than is dreamed of in your philosophy."
Benny Hinn and his kind uphold a doctrine of prosperity theology, which is all about idolotry (which is greed), so you can stuff them all up your jumper. There's nothing even scriptural behind the kind of work they do. It's a godforsaken shakedown. Trust meee... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hey skinhead,
I am glad to hear how you let God in and help. It takes courage to admit that.
| Quote: |
| My faith in God opened my mind to the world and to the fascination of science and I learned to acknowledge his work in all things - even the idea of evolution. |
I agree. Darwin's theory on micro-evolution is brilliant. However, when macro-evolution is where the buck stops for me. I have many reasons why I dispute this theory, but the main one is sin. Sin is what created death. So if sin created death, then how could we possibly have macro-evolution if there was no death? These two theories are simply not compatible.
| Quote: |
| It comes down to faith: Do you have faith in God, or do you have "faith" in science? "Faith" in science is easy to come by, mostly because it's proven itself time and time again, and (most importantly) it's willing to say: "We don't have all the answers. We think this is how it works because all the evidence points in that direction, but we're open to change if new evidence arises." |
It's not faith in science, but it's faith in evolution. God and science mix. I can have faith in God and be a scientist. Good example would be Sir Isaac Newton.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
just because
Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Location: Changwon - 4964
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| So did anybody go???? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
skinhead
Joined: 11 Jun 2004
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 4:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| fiveeagles wrote: |
Hey skinhead,
I am glad to hear how you let God in and help. It takes courage to admit that.
|
Yeah, good to meet you too, fiveeagles. Discussing my faith with others takes very little courage relative to action. Why should people with a faith feel ashamed to admit it anyway? I get heartily sick of do-good bible-thumpers whose whole raison d'etre is, when a person commits to faith in God, to cauterise their brain and neuter their balls so they become easier to handle. Acculturation into the flock, if you like. Which is why I steer clear of such 'flocky evangelists' as Hinn. Happy-clappy Christianity is for the birds, mate. Christ gave one commandment to those who would come after him - "follow me" - I think it's 80 times or more in the gospels. Go forward and make disciples of all the world. Heal the sick. Feed the poor. Give rest to the weary. Comfort the downtrodden. Love your neighbour as yourself. Love your enemies and do good to those who persecute you. Nowhere does he say make money and fleece your gullible flock for all they're worth. A pox on that, I say. The day Hinn sells his Airmani suit and takes the profits downtown to the streets where he's needed, then I'll take a part. Is he going to donate to any orphanages? Is he going to give succour to the hookers in the 'Twon? The sheboys, dykes, crims, beggars, jailbirds, AIDS patients, downtrodden DDD workers or any other area of Korean society where people are shafted on a regular basis? Don't kid yourself that this bloke is a man of God. He'll join the shafters here for one reason only - a charity drive to fill his coffers. I've met ESL teachers and DDD workers alike who give their weekends regularly for street kids and orphans in many areas of Seoul. They had little money to give, but they didn't really need it. Not Christians either, most of them. Each one of those people had more credibility in their elbow than this Hinn peanut. All in my opinion only, of course.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Happy-clappy Christianity is for the birds, mate. |
ha. That's a great line! I totally hear ya. Leaving Vancouver was like a breath of fresh air. I learned a lot about the western church, but man, where's the love? It seems to be so focused on the ministry rather than the heart. I left my old church because I rebuked the leadership on a few issues. One being money. God was telling me something was stinking.
About a month after I left, they caught the children's pastor stealing from the tithe. The same pastor who wouldn't let me go and take the kids to other venures. Like preaching on the streets and helping out at the food banks. Anyway, it's a long story one we can talk about by pm if you are ever interested. What is sad, is that many walk closer to Jesus outside of the church than those who are in the church. That's why Paul warned there would be a great falling away in the last days. The pew warmer Christians aren't going to be able to stand the heat.
However, I am leary of judging those because of what they wear. What we hear from the media we can definitely not trust. It is so anti-Christian, it is almost comical. You don't know how much Benny Hinn is giving behind the scenes. You don't know what he is doing in his personal life. Unfortunately, it does say in the word to be beyond reproach. And it sure seems like he is not.
I agree with you that the prosperity message is going way to far. It will be interesting to see when persecution increases against Christianity who will stay and who will fall away. May God give me the grace to stay in his arms.
May we all follow Him in the days ahead.
Good post man. Your solid.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Binch Lover
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| They work with the Israelite army and are helping in the development of military technology. Cool, eh? Imagine that, and they are both Christians who run these companies. |
How does developing machines which help in the killing of innocent people tie into Christian morals? You seem proud to be associated with an army that bulldozes houses, kills innocents and upholds a form of apartheid. I just don't get it. So many Christians seem to be obsessed with the Bible and converting others instead of actually helping those less fortunate than themselves. For example, take the religious right in the US which abolish welfare given half the chance. The blatant hypocrisy of so many Christians is the reason why I am so turned off by most things associated with the religion. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| just because wrote: |
| So did anybody go???? |
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jlb
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Anyone...anyone? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
captain kirk
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah, did anybody go? The other FT at our haggie teacher went. I wonder if she's crazy or what going to see this guy. She says he's really popular in Canada and her relatives are crazy about him. And he has healing powers by touch.
Is this guy within the bounds of normal society or what? It's amazing how religion and politics/patriotism can be over the top and nobody notices.
This guy's Christian so anything goes. He can be as crazy as he wants, he's A CHRISTIAN.
Sheesh. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
captain kirk
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
By the way what the heck is 'The Rapture', anyway? So I don't have to wallow in a websearch through layers of half-baked, New Age pastry cake.
How 'bout 'The Rupture', a kind of global hernia. It's more scientific. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 5:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I forget the Bible passage exactly, something about
2 shall be working in the field, one shall be taken and one left.
2 shall be sleeping in bed, one taken and one left. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
