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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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 Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| dulouz wrote: |
They did not commit a verbal assult becuase you said they did. I'm not respecting that analysis or claim. If they committed a verbal assault they would have been arrested, charged and convicted. That did not happen.
Why do you think I need to accept your assertion? |
My version?? Read the article, it's right there. The police didn't do anything, which is not unusual. They usually don't because verbal assault is so rampant/normal. But in this case, with the elements involed, it would have been wise.
And why do you summarily call the people of color liars? |
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dulouz
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Uranus
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| I don't know what a "verbal assault" is. I can't debate you. A dissenting opinion perhaps? What ever the Nazis did, the cops weren't interested although they likely wanted to bust the marchers so very much. The Nazis worked within the confines of the law. The citizens didn't. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:03 am Post subject: |
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Actually, dolouz, I just read the article postedand can't find the reference I thought I'd read before!! Maybe I read a different article earlier? Anyway, it may be my mistake.
Edit:
Ah here it is:
http://townhall.com/news/ap/online/headlines/D8D9NTKO0.html
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Much of the anger boiled over because
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| residents were upset that city leaders allowed about a dozen white supremacists to walk through the neighborhood and shout insults. |
The march was called off after rioting started.
"They don't have the right to bring hate to my front yard," said Terrance Anderson, who lives near the bar that was destroyed. Three other businesses were looted or damaged. |
The actions in bold text would be considered verbal assault, and is not legal. And, if they were shouting insults, then they were also guilty of incitment or attempted incitement because it would be reasonable to expect a viloent reaction to white supremacists even without insults. This is a predictable result, thus incitement.
Again I do not excuse the actions of the gangs or other rioters, but one wonders why the supremacists were allowed to verbally assault.
Last edited by EFLtrainer on Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:17 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:06 am Post subject: |
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Some background data on the various Nazi groups in the U.S.:
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American Nazi Party
The American Nazi Party was an American Neo-Nazi political party formed in February 1959 by George Lincoln Rockwell. The organization was headquartered in Arlington, Virginia and maintained a visitor's center at 2507 North Franklin Road.
The organization was based largely upon the ideals and policies of the NSDAP in Germany during the Third Reich. Following the assassination of Rockwell in 1967 by a disgruntled party member, the group was taken over by Matt Koehl who renamed it the National Socialist White People's Party.
In 1970, NSWPP member Frank Collin broke away from the group and founded the National Socialist Party of America which became famous due to its attempt to march through Skokie, Illinois; a community with a large Jewish population and a number of survivors of the Nazi genocide. Collin's actual goal was to lead demonstrations in Chicago's Marquette Park area, and targeted Skokie in an attempt to get access to Marquette Park without posting a large insurance bond. Collin was eventually convicted and sent to prison in 1979 on charges of child molestation.
Revived ANP
More recently a new American Nazi Party has been launched and is largely regarded as extremist, even for a fascist organization. The new group claims to be the inheritor of Rockwell's legacy and is led by Rocky Suhayda. It was formerly known as the European American Education Association and is based in Eastpointe, Michigan. They use the so-called Fourteen Words as their motto: "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children."
According to their website, "The American Nazi Party is a Political-Educational Association, dedicated to the 14 WORDS. We are committed to bringing American National Socialism, first created and embodied by our late Commander George Lincoln Rockwell, out of the past Phase One activities which at the time served their purpose well, and into the 21st Century."
The website contains several sections such as for email, merchandise, history, etc. The ANP report area has reports going back to July 2003. The ANP reports, which come out sometimes a few times a month, usually consist of about a page of rants about various Nazi and social issues.
The National Socialist Movement uses the term America's Nazi Party. This is a different group from the American Nazi Party. Occasionally, other American Nazi groups will also describe themselves as America's Nazi Party as well. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_United_States |
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dulouz
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Uranus
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:23 am Post subject: |
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I'm sorry, but the Nazis are neither guilty of nor accused of anything.
They shouted insults..."The paint color of your car is ugly". There is nothing illegal about that. Theatening to kill someone is and it seems they did not do that. The cops weren't interested in what the Nazis said.
The local Nationalist Socialist Party has better ethics than the local populace.
If I were a Jew lawyer working for the ACLU, you'd mail me check
in support. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| dulouz wrote: |
| If I were a Jew lawyer working for the ACLU, you'd mail me check in support. |
! |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:40 am Post subject: |
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| dulouz wrote: |
| The Nazis worked within the confines of the law. The citizens didn't. |
Not if they actually did commit verbal assault. I'm having a devil of a time finding a straightforward definition, though. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| dulouz wrote: |
| The Nazis worked within the confines of the law. The citizens didn't. |
Not if they actually did commit verbal assault. I'm having a devil of a time finding a straightforward definition, though. |
Why couldn't your good citizens have responded in kind? Why did they have to celebrate their violence toward persons and property? Enablers like you make me sick. Do you think they would have spared you were you there? |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:58 am Post subject: ... |
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| Quote: |
The local Nationalist Socialist Party has better ethics than the local populace.
If I were a Jew lawyer working for the ACLU, you'd mail me check
in support. |
That's some bigoted shit. The ACLU actually protects the nazis.
What happened in Toledo was wrong.
It goes beyond civil disobediance.
Throwing rocks at police was WRONG. The vandalism was WRONG.
Nazis are WRONG. We play into their hands by allowing such violence. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:34 am Post subject: |
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TOLEDO, Ohio (AP) -- The city was calm Monday [17 Oct. 2005] after weekend violence triggered by a white supremacist group's march along the sidewalks of a racially mixed neighborhood.
A melee broke out Saturday when protesters confronted members of the National Socialist Movement who had gathered at a city park.
"They do have a right to walk on the Toledo sidewalks," Mayor Jack Ford said Sunday.
An angry mob, some of them gang members, threw baseball-sized rocks at police, vandalized vehicles and stores, and set fire to a bar. More than 100 people were arrested and one officer was seriously injured.
The march was called off after the rioting started.
Police Chief Mike Navarre said Monday there had been no trouble since Saturday.
"After the four-hour disturbance ended, we have not had a problem in the neighborhood since," Navarre said on CBS's "The Early Show."
Much of the anger erupted because residents were upset that city leaders allowed about a dozen white supremacists to walk through the neighborhood and shout insults.
"They don't have the right to bring hate to my front yard," said Terrance Anderson, who lives near the bar that was destroyed. Three other businesses were looted or damaged.
Others joined the mayor in saying the neo-Nazis had the right to march. "Too bad the people couldn't ignore them," said Dee Huntley.
Police arrested 114 people on charges including assault, vandalism, failure to obey police, failure to disperse and overnight curfew violations.
Twelve police officers were injured, including one who suffered a concussion when a brick came through a side window of her cruiser and hit her on the head.
Arraignments began Monday morning in Municipal Court for some of those arrested. A judge set bail at $10,000 for defendants accused of aggravated riot.
Donna Reid said two of her sons faced felony charges. She wasn't sure why they were charged and wished they had stayed away.
"They weren't thinking, wrong place and wrong time," she said.
The disturbances were confined to a 1-square-mile area, police said. At one point, the crowd grew to about 600 people.
Nearly all of the violence ended by late afternoon Saturday, and police set an evening curfew for the city through Monday morning.
The neighborhood northwest of downtown once was a thriving Polish community. Now it's a mix of Hispanic, Polish and black residents, many of them poor living in modest homes.
Police began hearing at the middle of last week from officers on the street that gangs planned to descend on the neighborhood, the police chief said.
"We knew during the preparation that it was going to be a tremendous challenge," Navarre said. "Anyone who would accuse us of being underprepared I would take exception with that."
However, he said the protest lasted longer and was more intense than expected.
Authorities delayed releasing the route of the march so protesters wouldn't have advance notice of where the demonstration would take place.
Community leaders organized an "Erase the Hate" rally to draw people away from the march. And the mayor spoke to 2,000 people at a Baptist church Friday night, urging them to ignore the neo-Nazis.
A spokesman for the National Socialist Movement accused police of losing control of the situation.
The neo-Nazi group came to the city, which relies heavily on the auto industry and has high unemployment in minority neighborhoods, because of a dispute between neighbors, one white and the other black.
"This is not a police problem," Navarre said. "This is a social problem." |
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/10/17/nazi.march.ap/index.html |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| dulouz wrote: |
| The Nazis worked within the confines of the law. The citizens didn't. |
Not if they actually did commit verbal assault. I'm having a devil of a time finding a straightforward definition, though. |
If, if, if....the FACT is that the nazis, in this case, did nothing illegal no matter how much we may want them to have. Nothing you have put forth says that the marchers did anything illegal therefore the rioters were fully in the wrong.
Remember, just because a liberal "feels" something doesn't make it so. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:21 am Post subject: |
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I've never heard of "verbal assault," either.
"Assault" pertains to threatening to hurt someone by physical violence. Making someone flinch, for example, by forming a fist, is assault.
"Assault" becomes "battery" when you actually hit someone. I believe that these are both civil and criminal issues in the U.S. That is, you can be arrested and sued for these things.
"Sexual assault" is legal euphemism for "rape." But it's not clear what "verbal assault" is. I couldn't find Black's online to check it out.
Last edited by Gopher on Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| But it's not clear what "verbal assault" is. |
Maybe its shouting loud enough to hurt someone's ears? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:26 am Post subject: |
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Was it their intention to hurt someone's ears? As you know, intent is a vital element to assault.
In any case, I'm not sure what the elements of "verbal assault" are. |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
Was it their intention to hurt someone's ears? As you know, intent is a vital element to assault.
In any case, I'm not sure what the elements of "verbal assault" are. |
Of course you aren't...because there is NO SUCH THING. Maybe you could just "feel" it. |
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