Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Veronica]

One of my high school students questioned the marking of one of her answers.

The sentence that she wrote was:

"I'm working really hard on studying English"

Is this grammatically incorrect? I think not, as do a few friends, but the teacher is adamant that it is wrong and won't change his opinion about the mark that she lost. His English is shocking. Another Korean teacher who is virtually fluent, agrees with me that it isn't grammatically wrong. I know that we wouldn't say it as it is a bit of an oddity to say, but is it grammatically wrong?

[some waygug-in]

I see nothing wrong with it.

Although I would omit the "on", but I still wouldn't call it wrong.

[Ya-ta Boy]

I think 'on', 'at' or no preposition at all are acceptable in that example.

[deessell]

I realize that this was on a test and that grammar is important but it is this kind of shiite that makes me angry. It is also one of the reasons why students of English complain about how difficuolt it is. If I can understand what the student is saying, I give it a tick. Language is about communication.

Have you seen the English tests in High School. I swear some of my students can't even accurately answer present simple questions yet the tests are asking ridiculously pedantic questions. On top of that, they are multiple choice. I was asked for my opinion in a similar situation recently and apparently I chose the same answer as the student.

I'm of the opinion that English is an art not a science and I mark accordingly. BTW I am not anti-grammar and always teach it in my classes however I take a realistic and practical approach to it.

[Sliver]

To make this easy first take out the emphatic adverb phrase ��really hard�� leaving:

I��m working on studying English.

Now apply the rules to determine phrasal category, substitution, movement and conjoinability.

So:
I��m working on it
Studying English is what I��m working on.
I��m working on studying English and dancing.

And

*I��m working studying English on

Show that the predicate is a special type of verb called a ��prepositional verb�� This is important understanding that ��work on�� is a prepositional verb because if your co teacger thinks ��on studying English�� is the prepositional phrase (adverbial) of the predicate I can see why he is confused. It fails two of the constituent tests namely substitution and movement.

I��m working there (though the sentence is okay the meaning is changed in substitution)
*On studying English I��m working (hello Yoda)

To explain a prepositional verb to him, if a verb requires a particular preposition and its position can��t change when the predicate takes an object (as it can with phrasal verbs) it is a prepositional verb.

To show this further

*working about/up/in proves only the specific prepositions ��on�� and ��at�� are appropriate.

So now you have the declarative complex sentence

I (subject) am working on (predicate [using a prepositional verb]) studying English (object of predicate, non finite subordinate clause [using the present participle gerund])

Finally add back the adverbs (adverb phrase) into the sentence (adverbs can be in-between the verb and the preposition in prepositional verbs)

I am working really hard on studying English

No problem

[joe_doufu]

Is she working hard or hardly working?

[trigger123]

wow, silver you are really clever. (and i mean that sincerely)
but how do you go about explaining that to your average hagwon / high school colleague?
other than saying 'it just is'?

[ladyandthetramp]

[ajuma]

What was the Korean teacher's objection? Was it "really"? Maybe you should point out that native speakers use "really" instead of "very" REALLY often!!

[Veronica]

[Veronica]

He has given in now I have given it to him - he did look mighty perplexed with that explanation - just as I predicted.....

[VanIslander]

The sentence is perfectly fine.

I would give half marks (if grading was necessary, which I think it shouldn't be) and indicate a simplier form (half marks because it's unlikely the Korean high school student would have written that sentence with full awareness of its grammatical form, except perhaps as an extended use by analogy).

deessell has a good point about communication being most important, but I couldn't just give a check mark to an obviously grammatically incorrect sentence unless the point of the answer was to test comprehension of content in a short story or the like.

Use the opportunity to indicate a simplier, hence better, choice. But to say the student's sentence is wrong is... well, wrong. I say this ironically because I fully believe it's better to think in terms of better/worse rather than right/wrong.

A benefit of working in a small hagwon is that many of them don't require test results, but instead report cards that allow summarized gradations of excellence/very good/good/poor in relevant skill areas.

[rok_the-boat]

I have to edit a lot of stuff everyday and there are always one or two smart alecs that question my corrections. Sometimes, what they write is gramatically correct, but it makes no sense in the context - try explaining that to them!

[CaptainConjunction]

I'm sure I'll cop it from everyone here for saying this, but I think the sentence is clearly WRONG!

I'm sure if most of us heard another native speaker say this, we'd feel there was something odd about it.

Now if this is the case, why in God's name, should we teach students to speak like this? Instead of thinking that we're coming down hard on the poor student, perhaps we should try to explain that teachers are there to help them to speak the same way that we do.

If I got off my fat ass and studied some Korean, I'd want to be studying the Korean that people use.

My point is simply that when we get too hung up on the grammar in one sentence, we lose sight of the overall goal of studying a language - to be able to use that language fluently. So if the sentence may be grammatically correct but it's not used, I think it would be more valuable to teach the student the way we would say it.

So, if I were marking that particular paper, I would draw a big fat red line through it and write:

Good effort Ji Young, but your sentence is not natural English. Either of these would be correct

I'm studying English hard

I'm really trying to improve my English

[hypnotist]

I don't think the grammar is incorrect, but to me it suggests that the speaker is working hard on his study of English (the methodology) rather than his English (the language). Perhaps a subtle difference but enough to grate if the speaker really meant the latter.

Consider the difference between:

I'm working really hard to improve my English.
I'm working really hard to improve my study of English. [Ok this is clunky too but you get the idea.]

Of course the speaker could have meant the latter.