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Bo Peabody
Joined: 25 Aug 2005
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 Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:25 am Post subject: Railway to Tibet |
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4345494.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1573817,00.html
Just heard that the construction of the Railway to Tibet has completed. No idea when it will open.
Has anyone been to Tibet? What are your thoughts on the cultural, economic and environmental ramifications of the new railway?
It's definitely on my travel destinations list and I want to do it while I'm here in Asia. Do you know any good Tibetan travel info resources? |
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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:30 am Post subject: |
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I can't wait- but it will actually be a couple of years before I railroad China. have you read Paul Theroux's Riding the Iron Rooster? It is his account of a year, plus or minus, of cris-crossing China by rail in the mid-eighties. It's a bit dated, but inspiring nonetheless.
I just hope the heating and air-con have improved!
See Tibet soon, as it will be all Han Chinese before too long. |
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bosintang
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Location: In the pot with the rest of the mutts
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| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| desultude wrote: |
I can't wait- but it will actually be a couple of years before I railroad China. have you read Paul Theroux's Riding the Iron Rooster? It is his account of a year, plus or minus, of cris-crossing China by rail in the mid-eighties. It's a bit dated, but inspiring nonetheless.
I just hope the heating and air-con have improved!
See Tibet soon, as it will be all Han Chinese before too long. |
You mean Tibet isn't all Han Chinese already? I could be wrong, but I remember hearing that there are more Han Chinese in Tibet now than Tibetans.
I've read Theroux's Riding the Iron Rooster. His chapter on his journey to Tibet is classic. However, I imagine as much as the rest of China may have changed overall, the Tibet of today would be unreckonisable from the Tibet of the early 80's.
That book definitely made me not want to spend a winter in Harbin or Northern China. I frequently see job advertisements on Dave's for positions in Harbin and I shudder everytime I see them. |
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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| bosintang wrote: |
| desultude wrote: |
I can't wait- but it will actually be a couple of years before I railroad China. have you read Paul Theroux's Riding the Iron Rooster? It is his account of a year, plus or minus, of cris-crossing China by rail in the mid-eighties. It's a bit dated, but inspiring nonetheless.
I just hope the heating and air-con have improved!
See Tibet soon, as it will be all Han Chinese before too long. |
You mean Tibet isn't all Han Chinese already? I could be wrong, but I remember hearing that there are more Han Chinese in Tibet now than Tibetans.
I've read Theroux's Riding the Iron Rooster. His chapter on his journey to Tibet is classic. However, I imagine as much as the rest of China may have changed overall, the Tibet of today would be unreckonisable from the Tibet of the early 80's.
That book definitely made me not want to spend a winter in Harbin or Northern China. I frequently see job advertisements on Dave's for positions in Harbin and I shudder everytime I see them. |
Yeah, I am reading the book now and have just left Harbin. I closed the book last night at the point where the author was descibing the people leaving the toilet, which was no more than a hole in the floor of the train passing through subzero weather. His description of that alone was worth the book. 
I still look forward to the Trans-Siberian, probably in the winter, but that one sounds much warmer.  |
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plato's republic
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Ancient Greece
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| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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I've been to Tibet and would definately recommend going there. It's a very interesting place to visit but there are so many Han Chinese living there now that it didn't quite seem to have the 'magic' that I was expecting. Still it was a great experience. Standing in line with Tibetan pilgrims while waiting to enter the Jokhang was amazing.
I also read the book by Paul Theroux, a truly great read. The kind of book that makes you just want to grab your pack and hit the road  |
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adamdean
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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i spent a month in tibet last year and it is an amazing although depressing place to visit.
the railway is scheduled to open in time for the beijing olympics and tibet is now being pitched as a honeymoon destination for chinese tourists. the chinese have flooded tibet with han chinese migrant workers ina n attempt to culturally dilute the tibetan culture and race.
the arrival of the railway (and the chineses olympics) will ensure the end for any tibetan independance struggle in my opinion |
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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| adamdean wrote: |
i spent a month in tibet last year and it is an amazing although depressing place to visit.
the railway is scheduled to open in time for the beijing olympics and tibet is now being pitched as a honeymoon destination for chinese tourists. the chinese have flooded tibet with han chinese migrant workers ina n attempt to culturally dilute the tibetan culture and race.
the arrival of the railway (and the chineses olympics) will ensure the end for any tibetan independance struggle in my opinion |
On the other hand, it could insure some safety and autonomy for the Tibetans, in the same way that the Vietnamese hill tribes are marginally better treated these days- you can't abuse a tourist attraction; there are witnesses! Also, you want the locals to look colorful and happy, not oppressed. Even as Theroux was traveling in the mid 80's, they were rebuilding temples, etc.
It would not be the same to be some sort of Buddhist-Disneyland, but there would be a compelling reason to afford some protection and care to the Tibetans.
Also, and maybe this is too optimistic, but the Dalai Lama has been more positive lately about things in China and Tibet, saying that the Tibetans are getting more support from the Chinese people, some of whom are rediscovering Buddhism themselves. |
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plato's republic
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Ancient Greece
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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Desultude,
Tibetans should be given the chance to protect and govern themselves. They don't want or need the Chinese to do it for them. That's my two cents worth. |
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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| plato's republic wrote: |
Desultude,
Tibetans should be given the chance to protect and govern themselves. They don't want or need the Chinese to do it for them. That's my two cents worth. |
Oh, I agree 100,000%, but the question is how can that ever happen? I think the Chinese government has no intention of leaving Tibet, and the world has shown no inclination to relinquish Tibet. The Dalai Lama recently said that any attempt of the Tibetan people to liberate themselves would be disasterously futile.
Of course you are right, but how do you propose that be made to happen? |
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plato's republic
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Ancient Greece
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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I don't profess to have all the answers but in my opinion the first step must be complete autonomy leading to gradual independence for Tibet. The Chinese should stop their policy of sending/encouraging Han Chinese to relocate to Tibet and allow more political control to ordinary Tibetan people. I'm sure the Tibetans have received some minor benefits from the Chinese, such as a degree of modernisation and much improved infrastructure, at least in the towns.
I remember reading that Tibetans were cut off from the outside world through their own choice and devoid of its influences for a long time, much like Korea and Japan were in the past. Now that is changing and they have to deal with the effects of globalization just like everyone else. |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Middle Land
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| Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:19 am Post subject: |
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Posts like these got a certain 'other' website banned in China.
I know Dave wouldn't want his site banned in China, would he? Lots of money to be lost if it is. |
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