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gypsyfish
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:36 am Post subject: |
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Of course because can start a sentence. I can't believe that Canadians are not taught about adverb clauses. PS' examples are correct.
On the other hand, I find many Koreans use because incorrectly.
I like my mother. Because she still spoon feeds me.
This time because begins a sentence fragment. |
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Billy Pilgrim
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| VanIslander wrote: |
Students are often discouraged from starting sentences with "but" and "because".
Why?
Because it's too easy to overuse the form.
But don't worry.
It's perfectly fine. |
Exactly. I dissuade my university students from doing it because they overdo it, and seem stuck in the habit of splitting sentences that could simply be joined with comma-FANBOYS. It makes their writing seem extremely amateurish. I'm sick of reading: "Seoul is a cosmopolitan city. But it still has many problems".
I emphasis to them that in novels and creative writing, starting a sentence with a FANBOYS conjunction is a common technique, but seeing as most of them would only ever write in English for resumes, essays, reports, etc, I actually mark them down if they do it in any writing assignments I give them. |
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forgesteel
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:43 am Post subject: FANBOYS |
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Huh?
what's that? |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| ladyandthetramp wrote: |
| Perhaps I need to be more specific. It is generally considered poor writing style, which is what I tell Koreans. Generally, simply replacing the period with a comma or erasing the words altogether is all that is necessary. |
Yes, I would teach students not to do it in formal situations. And it's good for them to get comfortable with longer sentences by using commas and semicolons (incidentally, why have I never seen a comma in a Korean sentence?).
But at the same time, in my experience, it's generally only considered poor writing style by stuffy grammar books and self-important grammar mavens. In some cases it sounds inappropriate. But the vast majority of the time it's not problem. These are the same people who will tell you to never split an infinitive.
Oops. |
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The Man known as The Man
Joined: 29 Mar 2003
Location: 3 cheers for Ted Haggard oh yeah!
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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It is permissible to start a sentence with because.
Because that's the bottom line, and Joe Thanks is a psycho. |
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Binch Lover
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| You cannot begin sentences with "and, but, or, so." These are always found in the middle, joining a main clause to a subordinate clause. |
What about the sentence: "But for her corpulence, the Canadian girl would have been attractive."
Is that correct? |
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gypsyfish
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Binch Lover wrote: |
| Quote: |
| You cannot begin sentences with "and, but, or, so." These are always found in the middle, joining a main clause to a subordinate clause. |
What about the sentence: "But for her corpulence, the Canadian girl would have been attractive."
Is that correct? |
I'm tempted to say it depends on her corpulence and, yes, it is correct. |
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Billy Pilgrim
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 1:22 am Post subject: |
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| Binch Lover wrote: |
| Quote: |
| You cannot begin sentences with "and, but, or, so." These are always found in the middle, joining a main clause to a subordinate clause. |
What about the sentence: "But for her corpulence, the Canadian girl would have been attractive."
Is that correct? |
It's correct, mainly because "but" means "except", and it's not a compound sentence. |
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butter808fly
Joined: 09 May 2004
Location: Northern California, USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:44 am Post subject: |
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It drove me crazy that every single student at my old hogwon would write Because as the start of a sentence. I was taught in America that is not okay to start a sentence with because if you are missing half of the logic.
A because B.
This is what I told my students. This is a logic type sentence and you can not have A without B. If you do so, its illogical.
I have the same books as the OP and its a good idea to explain that because they are phone conversations, its okay to say because first. But in written English... dont do it! |
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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:01 am Post subject: |
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| ladyandthetramp wrote: |
| Hater Depot wrote: |
Here's one from the very next article:
| Quote: |
| Industry groups applauded him; environmental groups attacked him. And committee members seemed little swayed from their original positions. |
Every good writer of English, and everyone who speaks it, does this all the time. It's no barrier to clear writing and only a very few will have a problem with it. I'd say the main reason you don't see it as much in formal writing is because there's usually a bigger word you can use instead -- therefore, etc. |
Perhaps I need to be more specific. It is generally considered poor writing style, which is what I tell Koreans. Generally, simply replacing the period with a comma or erasing the words altogether is all that is necessary.
I do not think that beginning a sentence with "and" is always wrong. I begin sentences with "and" occasionally for stylistic reasons. When writing dialogues, I have no problem with beginning sentences with "and" begins it reflects the way we speak. However, when teaching students to write, you also need to teach them at least some basics of what is considered good writing style.
What do you think of the sentences:
I like cats. And I eat breakfast in the morning.
Is "and" necessary? No, but my students like writing it.
Or this:
I am a boy. And I am tall.
Should we tell them that this is good writing? Or should we teach them:
I am a tall boy.
Here are some sentences from books I have to use:
"First, draw two circles and add eyes. Now draw a face. And add a nose and a mouth...."
"The driver takes the money. And he makes a circle with his thumb and forefinger."
"I looked around. But there was nobody near."
Ask yourself one of these two (three) questions:
1. Is "and" necessary? Does it look better than the same sentence without it?
2. Wouldn't a comma look better?
There are some fairly advanced books published in Korea that never use words like "although, however, also, too, nonetheless, nevertheless, moreover, in addition, etc." Shouldn't we teach them these words so they can sound a little more intelligent when they write? |
Your examples of:
"First, draw two circles and add eyes. Now draw a face. And add a nose and a mouth...."
"The driver takes the money. And he makes a circle with his thumb and forefinger."
"I looked around. But there was nobody near."
These are grammatically incorrect. In the first example, "and" shouldn't start the sentence. Either delete it or put a comma before it and lowercase the "a". In a compound sentence "and" is used as a connector. This is the same for the second example.
In the last example "but" is a connector as well. The proper sentence should be:
I looked around, but there was nobody near.
This is the way I teach it in my writing class and the text I use backs this up.
Now for the OP - "because" can indeed start a sentence. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:54 am Post subject: |
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| Billy Pilgrim wrote: |
| VanIslander wrote: |
Students are often discouraged from starting sentences with "but" and "because".
Why?
Because it's too easy to overuse the form.
But don't worry.
It's perfectly fine. |
Exactly. I dissuade my university students from doing it because they overdo it, and seem stuck in the habit of splitting sentences that could simply be joined with comma-FANBOYS. It makes their writing seem extremely amateurish. I'm sick of reading: "Seoul is a cosmopolitan city. But it still has many problems".
I emphasis to them that in novels and creative writing, starting a sentence with a FANBOYS conjunction is a common technique, but seeing as most of them would only ever write in English for resumes, essays, reports, etc, I actually mark them down if they do it in any writing assignments I give them. |
I prefer to use punctuation to reflect how I would speak the sentences, so a comma is much better. I will do this with my students. Ask them to say what they wrote, then have them read it. They must do so with correct meter so they can hear the difference between the period and the comma. |
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gypsyfish
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| butter808fly wrote: |
It drove me crazy that every single student at my old hogwon would write Because as the start of a sentence. I was taught in America that is not okay to start a sentence with because if you are missing half of the logic.
A because B.
This is what I told my students. This is a logic type sentence and you can not have A without B. If you do so, its illogical.
I have the same books as the OP and its a good idea to explain that because they are phone conversations, its okay to say because first. But in written English... dont do it! |
You absolutely can begin a gramatically correct sentence with because in written English. It's not because it's conversational. It's gramatically correct.
What are some of you teaching your students? Clearly, it's not English.
Some entries from Ask Jeeves. Sorry if the links are long, but, for god's sake, read them if you are teaching ESL.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Beginning a sentence with ��because�� is an excellent method for subordinating one part of a sentence and emphasizing another, as in ��Because you have worked so hard this year, you will receive a $10,000 bonus.�� This myth apparently originated from teachers warning their students not to write sentence fragments beginning with ��because,�� as in ��Because you have worked so hard this year.�� According to Joseph Williams, ��It is a ��rule�� with utterly no substance.��
http://web.ask.com/fr?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wilbers.com%2Fpart22.htm&s=k2&bu=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.ask.com%2Fweb%3Fq%3Dcan%2Bbecause%2Bbegin%2Ba%2Bsentence%253F%26o%3D0%26page%3D1%26dm%3Dlang&q=can+because+begin+a+sentence%3F&o=0&qt=0&ma=There%20are%20RULES%20that%20you%20should%20always%20observe%20because%20they%20have%20won%20...%20Never%20begin%20a%20sentence%20with%20%E2%80%9Cbecause.%E2%80%9D%20Never%20begin%20a%20sentence%20with&mt=Wilbers%3A%20RULES%2C%20Rules%2C%20and%20rules&mb=
Is It Correct to Begin a Sentence with "Because"?
14 Mar 2004
Why wouldn't it be? Because is a subordinating conjunction, used to introduce a subordinating clause. Because a subordinating clause can begin a sentence (such as this one), it is certainly correct to begin a sentence with Because – if the thought is then completed with an independent clause. "Because it rained for two days, every street in town was flooded." The prohibition against beginning with because probably derives from teachers' attempts to prevent students from writing dependent clause fragments in which the thought is left incomplete. However, no such restriction has ever been placed on beginning sentences with Although, If, When, While, Since, and other words that, like because, can also function as subordinating conjunctions. Why because has been singled out for this dubious distinction is a mystery.
http://web.ask.com/fr?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.grammarmudge.cityslide.com%2Farticles%2Farticle%2F1026513%2F8909.htm&s=k2&bu=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.ask.com%2Fweb%3Fq%3Dcan%2Bbecause%2Bbegin%2Ba%2Bsentence%253F%26o%3D0%26page%3D1%26dm%3Dlang&q=can+because+begin+a+sentence%3F&o=0&qt=0&ma=My%20Weblog.%20Guest%20Book.%20Recommend%20This%20Site.%20Grammar%20FAQs%26gt%3B%20Is%20It%20Correct%20to%20Begin%20a%20Sentence%20with%20%22Because%22%3F%20March%2014%2C%202004%20Why%20wouldn't%20it%20be%3F&mt=Is%20It%20Correct%20to%20Begin%20a%20Sentence%20with%20%22Because%22%3F&mb=
May a business writer begin a sentence with "because"? Many writers remember learning the rule, "A group of words that begins with because is not a complete sentence." That is, "Because of increased account activity" is not a sentence. However, that rule does not mean "Do not begin a sentence with because." For example, the following is a correct sentence: "Because of increased account activity, we have hired an additional customer service specialist." Writers may begin a sentence with because. In fact, doing so allows them to use the very persuasive "Sell and then tell" sentence pattern in which reasons and benefits are presented at the beginning of the sentence.
http://web.ask.com/fr?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.writingcenter.com%2Ftenquestions.htm&s=k2&bu=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.ask.com%2Fweb%3Fq%3Dcan%2Bbecause%2Bbegin%2Ba%2Bsentence%253F%26o%3D0%26page%3D1%26dm%3Dlang&q=can+because+begin+a+sentence%3F&o=0&qt=0&ma=Because%20...%20of%20increased%20account%20activity%22%20is%20not%20a%20sentence.%20However%2C%20that%20rule%20does%20not%20mean%20%22Do%20not%20begin%20a%20sentence%20with%20because.%22%20For%20example%2C...&mt=business%20writing%20courses%20writing%20training%20technical%20writing%20grammar...&mb= |
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butter808fly
Joined: 09 May 2004
Location: Northern California, USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:28 am Post subject: |
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I forgot to say I agree with an above poster.
Because B, A. Of course this is fine as well. As long as you have A and B. As I said. |
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gypsyfish
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| butter808fly wrote: |
I forgot to say I agree with an above poster.
Because B, A. Of course this is fine as well. As long as you have A and B. As I said. |
Whew! And my comments weren't just directed at you.  |
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The Man known as The Man
Joined: 29 Mar 2003
Location: 3 cheers for Ted Haggard oh yeah!
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 8:50 am Post subject: |
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Because there used to be a lot of deadwood teachers in Ontario's classrooms, Homer, a lot of Canadians think it's grammatically incorrect to start a sentence with because.
Because of those deadwood teachers, Homer, their knowledge of basic English grammar is faulty; those deadwood teachers are a disgrace.
Because of Mike Harris, Homer, a lot of those deadwood teachers are out of Ontario's classrooms. |
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