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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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 Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Pyongshin Sangja wrote: |
| You cannot begin sentences with "and, but, or, so." These are always found in the middle, joining a main clause to a subordinate clause. |
Oxford disagrees:
There is a persistent belief that it is improper to begin a sentence with And, but this prohibition has been cheerfully ignored by standard authors from Anglo-Saxon times onwards. An initial And is a useful aid to writers as the narrative continues.
http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/conjunctions.htm |
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Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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Longman Intro Guide to the TOEFL, skill 5, page 81 agrees with me. That's the test they're training for. Many multiple choice questions on the TOEFL are specifically testing for this. I know the TOEFL is changing, but I've yet to see a new format and I'm still teaching the Paper-Based Test. My university is archaic, but I suspect we aren't the only one in the country. I know it's acceptable to begin sentences with conjunctions, I do it all the time, but it's a dangerous tool to give Koreans.
Because it's natural to start sentences with conjunctions in Korean, they'll start every single sentence with a conjunction if you let them.
Because of the number of essays I've marked here, I know whereof I speak.
Because of their problems getting the Subject-Verb-Object thing down pat, keep them away from conjunctions. |
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numazawa
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: The Concrete Barnyard
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:44 am Post subject: |
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A writer should be prepared even to fight in civil wars if it seems necessary. But whatever else he does in the service of his party, he should never write for it. He should make it clear that his writing is a thing apart. And he should be able to act cooperatively while, if he chooses, completely rejecting the official ideology.
---------(George Orwell, The Collected Essays) |
| Quote: |
But wherefore do not you a mightier way
Make war upon this bloody tyrant Time?
And fortify your self in your decay
With means more blessed than my barren rhyme?
---------(Shakespeare, from "Sonnet 16") |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:02 am Post subject: |
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| Pyongshin Sangja wrote: |
Longman Intro Guide to the TOEFL, skill 5, page 81 agrees with me. That's the test they're training for. Many multiple choice questions on the TOEFL are specifically testing for this. I know the TOEFL is changing, but I've yet to see a new format and I'm still teaching the Paper-Based Test. My university is archaic, but I suspect we aren't the only one in the country. I know it's acceptable to begin sentences with conjunctions, I do it all the time, but it's a dangerous tool to give Koreans.
Because it's natural to start sentences with conjunctions in Korean, they'll start every single sentence with a conjunction if you let them.
Because of the number of essays I've marked here, I know whereof I speak.
Because of their problems getting the Subject-Verb-Object thing down pat, keep them away from conjunctions. |
I disagree with avoiding teaching anything. Teach it. Teach it well. Let them be students: let them experiment and explore. If they use it incorrectly, that is an indication of their command of the language, which is exactly what they are being tested on, no? All you achieve in avoiding teaching something on the asumption they can't possibly learn it is students who are not learning native-like usage. |
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Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 4:09 am Post subject: |
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Teach it, teach it well.
Thanks for the sermon from the mount, Charlton Heston.
I've seen the light. |
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gypsyfish
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 4:31 am Post subject: |
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| Pyongshin Sangja wrote: |
Teach it, teach it well.
Thanks for the sermon from the mount, Charlton Heston.
I've seen the light. |
Ooh, sarcasm.
So teach your students that dog is cat and cat is dog. Teach them that proper nouns should never be capitalized. Teach them that no means maybe. (Okay, I'll give you the last one.)
Be sarcastic and scoff, but EFLtrainer isn't wrong. You just disagree with him. It might take longer to teach students what is correct, but that's why they pay you the big bucks. Sarcastic quips don't make you right.  |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| gypsyfish wrote: |
| Pyongshin Sangja wrote: |
Teach it, teach it well.
Thanks for the sermon from the mount, Charlton Heston.
I've seen the light. |
Ooh, sarcasm.
So teach your students that dog is cat and cat is dog. Teach them that proper nouns should never be capitalized. Teach them that no means maybe. (Okay, I'll give you the last one.)
Be sarcastic and scoff, but EFLtrainer isn't wrong. You just disagree with him. It might take longer to teach students what is correct, but that's why they pay you the big bucks. Sarcastic quips don't make you right. |
Good answer. There are an awful ot of teachers in the world who don't take critique well. I honestly think part of the reason some people teach is that autonomy in the classroom. It's like being king for a day. |
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Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 7:17 am Post subject: |
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If I saw some of my students on a regular basis, I might get into the finer points. I teach at a Korean "university." I don't even know their names.
It's all about the paycheque.
And the 24 weeks of paid vacation.
Teach well, my friend.
Well into the new year. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| Pyongshin Sangja wrote: |
It's all about the paycheque.
And the 24 weeks of paid vacation. |
I was gonna post exactly that, but thought better of it.  |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| The Man known as The Man wrote: |
Because there used to be a lot of deadwood teachers in Ontario's classrooms, Homer, a lot of Canadians think it's grammatically incorrect to start a sentence with because.
Because of those deadwood teachers, Homer, their knowledge of basic English grammar is faulty; those deadwood teachers are a disgrace.
Because of Mike Harris, Homer, a lot of those deadwood teachers are out of Ontario's classrooms. |
You forgot to remind Kiwiboy that you like women.  |
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mack the knife
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: standing right behind you...
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Oxford disagrees:
There is a persistent belief that it is improper to begin a sentence with And, but this prohibition has been cheerfully ignored by standard authors from Anglo-Saxon times onwards. An initial And is a useful aid to writers as the narrative continues. |
The key word here is authors. Authors take all sorts of liberty with languages (hell, Tolkien created one). However, it would be very naughty indeed to begin a sentence with "and" or "but" in a formal work such as a dissertation, an academic journal, or a business report/journal which, I'm guessing, is what many (most?) adult Korean males studying English would be concerned with. |
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Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| True dat. |
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