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Teufelswacht
Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Location: Land Of The Not Quite Right
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 Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| scarneck wrote: |
And she should be convicted and punished, just as those that were in charge of the prison. You won't see that though, only the enlisted will get the sh}tty end of the stick. To say Rumsfelt and the president are responsible is wrong. It starts at unit level.
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You might be intefrested in this - especially the last paragraph or two.
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Bush demotes Army general in Abu Ghraib scandal
2 hours, 42 minutes ago
WASHINGTON (Reuters) -
President Bush on Thursday demoted a one-star general who figured prominently in the Abu Ghraib Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal, the U.S. Army said.
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Army Reserve Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski became the first high-level U.S. military officer demoted in the scandal after Army leaders deemed her job performance "seriously lacking" and accused her of concealing a past shoplifting arrest.
The Army said in a statement Karpinski had been reduced in rank to colonel, although an investigation by the Army inspector general's officer "determined that no action or lack of action on her part contributed specifically to the abuse of detainees at Abu Ghraib."
The Army, which had been accused by human rights activists of punishing only a handful of low-ranking soldiers involved in the physical abuse and sexual humiliation of Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib jail, also said it had taken disciplinary action against a series of other officers in connection with detainee abuse.
They included a colonel, four lieutenant colonels, three majors, 10 captains, four 1st lieutenants and two 2nd lieutenants, the Army added, but declined to identify them.
Five of the officers, none with a rank higher than captain, faced unspecified criminal charges, but most of the discipline was administrative punishment such as a formal letter of reprimand or a discharge from the military, the Army said. |
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scarneck
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 12:34 am Post subject: |
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| Teufelswacht wrote: |
| scarneck wrote: |
And she should be convicted and punished, just as those that were in charge of the prison. You won't see that though, only the enlisted will get the sh}tty end of the stick. To say Rumsfelt and the president are responsible is wrong. It starts at unit level.
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You might be intefrested in this - especially the last paragraph or two.
| Quote: |
Bush demotes Army general in Abu Ghraib scandal
2 hours, 42 minutes ago
WASHINGTON (Reuters) -
President Bush on Thursday demoted a one-star general who figured prominently in the Abu Ghraib Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal, the U.S. Army said.
ADVERTISEMENT
Privacy Policy
Army Reserve Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski became the first high-level U.S. military officer demoted in the scandal after Army leaders deemed her job performance "seriously lacking" and accused her of concealing a past shoplifting arrest.
The Army said in a statement Karpinski had been reduced in rank to colonel, although an investigation by the Army inspector general's officer "determined that no action or lack of action on her part contributed specifically to the abuse of detainees at Abu Ghraib."
The Army, which had been accused by human rights activists of punishing only a handful of low-ranking soldiers involved in the physical abuse and sexual humiliation of Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib jail, also said it had taken disciplinary action against a series of other officers in connection with detainee abuse.
They included a colonel, four lieutenant colonels, three majors, 10 captains, four 1st lieutenants and two 2nd lieutenants, the Army added, but declined to identify them.
Five of the officers, none with a rank higher than captain, faced unspecified criminal charges, but most of the discipline was administrative punishment such as a formal letter of reprimand or a discharge from the military, the Army said. |
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Yes, I heard that this morning on my drive to work. A well earn demotion indeed. A letter of reprimand won't hurt unless you roll it up and poke them in the eye with it. Take their retirement...ouch that'll hurt. |
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scarneck
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| R. S. Refugee wrote: |
| scarneck wrote: |
| ...It just takes some balls and conviction to do the right thing. Peer pressure be dammed, it's not an excuse. They knew that what they were doing was wrong, and need to own up to it. |
Specialist Darby did do the right thing. I wonder if he'll be trying to live in his home town in West Virginia (or was it Maryland?) where his life has been threatened for doing the right thing. |
Good thought, I wonder also. Probably not as bad as one would think, now that semi-justice is being served. |
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Teufelswacht
Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Location: Land Of The Not Quite Right
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 4:52 am Post subject: |
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| Yes, I heard that this morning on my drive to work. A well earn demotion indeed. A letter of reprimand won't hurt unless you roll it up and poke them in the eye with it. Take their retirement...ouch that'll hurt. |
Well, for anyone with less than 18 years in the service - the formal letter of reprimand is career ending. So, as I look at the list I think it is a safe bet the majors, captains, 1Lt's and 2Lt's are gone - out of the service. It depends on how fast the O5's got their rank but it could be an end for them also - with just the LOR. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| Teufelswacht wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Yes, I heard that this morning on my drive to work. A well earn demotion indeed. A letter of reprimand won't hurt unless you roll it up and poke them in the eye with it. Take their retirement...ouch that'll hurt. |
Well, for anyone with less than 18 years in the service - the formal letter of reprimand is career ending. So, as I look at the list I think it is a safe bet the majors, captains, 1Lt's and 2Lt's are gone - out of the service. It depends on how fast the O5's got their rank but it could be an end for them also - with just the LOR. |
Aren't all the convictions among either low-ranking regular Army and higher-ranking National Guard? The latter category fits the majority of the folk in the pictures or mentioned in the chain of command at Abu Ghraib. And aren't the Guard considered, yoiu know, not "real" soldiers? (Hence the disdain for the Dubya ...)
Seem to recall that Janet Karpinski was manager of a gorcery store before her tour at Abu.
Meanwhile there are those torure memos that were intended to distort international law to justify what the Pentagon and Rumsfeld had been suggesting all along ... Gonzalez wrote those memos, and now he is Attorney General.
If I were watching from another planet it would be suitable for the local version of the Marx Brothers - too bad I'm here, so it's not so funny. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:58 am Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
Aren't all the convictions among either low-ranking regular Army and higher-ranking National Guard? The latter category fits the majority of the folk in the pictures or mentioned in the chain of command at Abu Ghraib. And aren't the Guard considered, yoiu know, not "real" soldiers? (Hence the disdain for the Dubya ...)
Seem to recall that Janet Karpinski was manager of a gorcery store before her tour at Abu.
Meanwhile there are those torure memos that were intended to distort international law to justify what the Pentagon and Rumsfeld had been suggesting all along ... Gonzalez wrote those memos, and now he is Attorney General. |
Yah Gonzalez ... wrote the infamous torture memo.
Karpinski has a book out now. Been making the rounds on the radio talk show circuit. She was in the armed forces forces for 20 some plus years. Grocery store? Ummmmmmm ... don't think so. She claims the whole thing goes right up the chain of command to the highest levels.
I forgot to add. Not only was England a powerless patsy, she's said to be somewhat mentally challenged as well. Mother was an alcoholic & it affected her brain development.
Suffers from fetal alcohol syndrome ... apparently. |
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