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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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 Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| muggie2dammit wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Great idea. Clapping the syllables, too, I assume. If not, should make it work even better. What age and ability levels has this worked with? |
Actually, I clap to the rhythm, not the syllables, but you've got the idea.
So far, the Korean 7 years olds can get the basic idea and rhythm, if not the complete concept, and the 8 and 9 year olds can not only get the idea, but the concept - they then moved on to apply it to other songs and rhymes they'd learned in previous years.
Muggie2 |
Right, well, each syllable is gonna get a clap (at least I suuuure hope so!).... six of one, half-dozen.... |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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ddeubel: OF COURSE communication is important!! The problem is that students with poor pronuciation DON'T communicate well!! How many of us have worked with Korean teachers with terrible pronunciation
ajuma -- I agree! But I think what is important and what we really are talking about is --- how it's done. Has to be done in a contextualized and oblique way......unless there is some underlying physical dysfunction . Example -- I taught adults Vietnamese and they have the impossible task of trying to pronounce hard end consonants. They don't have them and have to be trained to physically make the sounds. So yes, practice, practice and getting the neuro connection going.. was very frustrating for them. Instead of saying " hard work" they would say " har were" . But in general except for a few cases, I don't see a similiar problem with Koreans.
I also think teachers should be aware that every lesson includes pronounciation if the students are speaking........can't avoid it. Teach it when it happens , don't make a special event out of it. A great book for contextual pronounciation is Sounds Great....anyone use it?
DD
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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Correction -- I meant Vietnamese adults or adult Vietnamese........ early morning and I need a coffee.... Not up to teaching Vietnamese yet  |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:30 am Post subject: Re: pronunciation not ALL that |
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| forgesteel wrote: |
That said, orange-EE et. al. is bad, and ought to be corrected. There is one syllable in Sprite (the soda), but Koreans think there are 5?! Seu-peu-ra-ee-teu?!
Cheers, |
no, they dont think there are 5.. there are 5!
remember! this is korea not america!!
and in korean its sspirieete there is no SPRITE ,, if you bothered to do any research into the local language you would see that..
so actually they are pronuncing it right.. the beverage is written that way in korean... if they were to go to a shop and say 1 sprite! the owner of the store would not understand them! as we have to say it with 5 syllables too! rememeber this when you correct them dont try and change them from saying it the proper way for them! teach them the way in English and the one in korean! so they understand.. both ways are correct! |
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forgesteel
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:41 am Post subject: hey, dimbulb, nice to see you again! |
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| itaewonguy wrote: |
| forgesteel wrote: |
That said, orange-EE et. al. is bad, and ought to be corrected. There is one syllable in Sprite (the soda), but Koreans think there are 5?! Seu-peu-ra-ee-teu?!
no, they dont think there are 5.. there are 5!
remember! this is korea not america!!
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Lame line of reasoning. If this were a valid line of reasoning, I'd think it was appropriate and right to do all sorts of ridiculous things in regards to English. Wow, isn't that sort of what this thread is about? Of course, actual thread topics aren't important to you. Just like actual facts aren't important to you.
| itaewonguy wrote: |
and in korean its sspirieete
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Let me spell it for you in Korean:
��������Ʈ
That may be how the Koreans spell it, but it's WRONG, or at the very best, misleading, as to the ENGLISH PRONUNCIATION, which was my original point. It's a little sad I have to spell it out for you so completely, but not all that surprising given the past responses you've so carefully crafted in the past week.
| itaewonguy wrote: |
there is no SPRITE ,, if you bothered to do any research into the local language
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I've done plenty of research, relatively speaking, into �ѱ� and �ѱ���, thank you very much. To wit, I studied for three months previous to my departure, and every month I've been here. That makes around 15 months of study. This constitutes 'a little research' in my book. In fact, I think it's safe to say I know more Korean than 98% of the world's population. I think I am on rather safe ground here.
Where are you getting the impression you are blathering about this time? Oh, yeah, not from any facts or sense data swimming around you in your sphere of sensation. You are a jellyfish-like creature that picks things up psychically, and needn't bother with inconvenient things like DATA and INFORMATION. You made it up whole cloth, like you make up the remainder of your idiocies.
| itaewonguy wrote: |
you would see that..
so actually they are pronuncing it right.. the beverage is written that way in korean...
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I know that's the way it is spelled in Korean, dimbulb! And I know that's how they pronounce it! How else could I have figured out that they think it has 5 syllables and then bring it up in my post?! Sheesh, you are slow! I see I am going to have to baby step you all the way through every single post I've made. Even then, you'll be lost.
| itaewonguy wrote: |
if they were to go to a shop and say 1 sprite! the owner of the store would not understand them! as we have to say it with 5 syllables too!
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Way to make a convoluted argument! I'm convinced. You are sooo persuasive!
Doesn't it matter that it's an English word, originally? No, facts don't matter in your world.
I don't ask store owners for my beverages. I go to the refrigerator and grab them for myself. Then I put it on the counter. The man with the scanner then tells me how much I owe Family Mart, and I give him that amount (and yes, I understand his ����� or whatever other number he whips out: I needn't look at the cash register's readout 99% of the time). No speaking of the Brand name is necessary for this simple transaction.
If it's behind the counter, I can say "The green one." and then point to the Sprite bottle. He understands me, and I never have to use their butchered version of "Sprite." So, your hypothetical was LAME!
| itaewonguy wrote: |
rememeber this when you correct them
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I don't correct them regarding pop culture trivialities unless they bring it up.
| itaewonguy wrote: |
| dont try and change them from saying it the proper way for them! teach them the way in English and the one in korean! so they understand.. both ways are correct! |
Your use of the imperative mood is annoying as all get out! You may want to try, "I suggest..." or "I've found the following techniques useful..."
You are not my mother, father, teacher, boss, a regcognized authority on any of the topics you hold forth on, etc. so to command me to do something is really quite inappropriate.
Wikipedia says the following on the topic. (Since you've taken issue with wikipedia in the past (citing nothing, just casting random aspersions, I might note) feel free to come up with your own preferred sources to support your arguments: if they are half as authoritative as wikipedia, I'll be a little surprised):
| Quote: |
The imperative mood expresses commands, direct requests, and prohibitions. In many circumstances, directly using the imperative mood seems blunt or even rude, so it is often used with care. Example: "Paul, read that book". |
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ajuma
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Location: Anywere but Seoul!!
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:29 am Post subject: |
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I was working with my students on pronunciation last week and I used the "clap on the syllables" idea and it worked really well!! Thanks muggie2dammit!
I also explained to my students that if I say to a taxi driver "E Mart" he probably won't understand me...but if I say "E ��Ʈ" he will. In America, if I say to a taxi driver "Wal-��Ʈ", he won't have any idea of where I want to go! They DO understand the difference...it's just a constant battle to keep them from using bad pronunciation. The earlier they start pronouncing things correctly, the better chance they have to be understood. |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| forgesteel wrote: |
| I've done plenty of research, relatively speaking, into �ѱ� and �ѱ���, thank you very much. To wit, I studied for three months previous to my departure, and every month I've been here. That makes around 15 months of study. This constitutes 'a little research' in my book. In fact, I think it's safe to say I know more Korean than 98% of the world's population. I think I am on rather safe ground here. |
You do know that itaewonguy has been here 8 years, right? And is married to a Korean? I assume you do since you know so much.
You just spent way too long deconstructing his post without adding anything to the board. You seem like a smart guy but I think it's time for you to get over yourself. And I mean really... "to wit"? |
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