| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
|
 Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:43 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Leslie Cheswyck wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
People like Milken, et. al., are no better than murderers and rapists. And they destroy far more lives than any given murderer or rapist.
|
While I'll agree that white-collar criminals must face the music, I cannot agree that they are worse than murderers and rapists. I'm sure the fathers out there would rather lose a job a thousand times over than see their little girl raped and butchered. |
Why does it matter how you destroy lives? And why does it not matter *how many* you destroy?? And what makes you think putting thousands of people into an economically desperate situation doesn't add to the crime rate? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Leslie Cheswyck wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
People like Milken, et. al., are no better than murderers and rapists. And they destroy far more lives than any given murderer or rapist.
|
While I'll agree that white-collar criminals must face the music, I cannot agree that they are worse than murderers and rapists. I'm sure the fathers out there would rather lose a job a thousand times over than see their little girl raped and butchered. |
Why does it matter how you destroy lives? And why does it not matter *how many* you destroy?? And what makes you think putting thousands of people into an economically desperate situation doesn't add to the crime rate? |
I lost a job once. Probably as a result of some white-collar criminal, who knows. I didn't go out the next day and rob a Brinks truck. My grandparents lived through the Depression. They didn't kill anybody. Just how you figure economic conditions have an effect on crime is beyond me. Rape? Murder? Child molesting? Where is the money in that? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Violent crime does tend to go up during periods of economic downturn or outright depression. Including rape; many rapists and serial killers contain their urges until there is some significant stressor in their life, whether it be the end of a relationship or the loss of a job. They do it because it makes them feel powerful and in control again. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Don't encourage them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Leslie Cheswyck wrote: |
| I lost a job once. Probably as a result of some white-collar criminal, who knows. I didn't go out the next day and rob a Brinks truck. My grandparents lived through the Depression. They didn't kill anybody. Just how you figure economic conditions have an effect on crime is beyond me. Rape? Murder? Child molesting? Where is the money in that? |
Just so. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Leslie Cheswyck wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Leslie Cheswyck wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
People like Milken, et. al., are no better than murderers and rapists. And they destroy far more lives than any given murderer or rapist.
|
While I'll agree that white-collar criminals must face the music, I cannot agree that they are worse than murderers and rapists. I'm sure the fathers out there would rather lose a job a thousand times over than see their little girl raped and butchered. |
Why does it matter how you destroy lives? And why does it not matter *how many* you destroy?? And what makes you think putting thousands of people into an economically desperate situation doesn't add to the crime rate? |
I lost a job once. Probably as a result of some white-collar criminal, who knows. I didn't go out the next day and rob a Brinks truck. My grandparents lived through the Depression. They didn't kill anybody. Just how you figure economic conditions have an effect on crime is beyond me. Rape? Murder? Child molesting? Where is the money in that? |
Is this a serious post or are you just trolling? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| You need to do better than call someone a troll. You must demonstrate to the class, trainer, just how it is that violent criminals---murderers, rapists, and child molestors---come to believe that committing their vile acts is a means toward ameliorating their unfortunate financial circumstances. I'm all ears. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Leslie Cheswyck wrote: |
| You need to do better than call someone a troll. You must demonstrate to the class, trainer, just how it is that violent criminals---murderers, rapists, and child molestors---come to believe that committing their vile acts is a means toward ameliorating their unfortunate financial circumstances. I'm all ears. |
Actually, it was a serious question. If I had intended to call you a troll, I would have. The reason for the question was I found myself absolutely stunned you could have so little knowledge of sociology and psychology. If I need to explain to you the rise in crime with virtually every serious economic downturn, well... no amount of "teaching" is going to help you.
However, I don't recall saying that economic downturns create rapists. Someone else posted that downturns add to the crime rate. What *I* said was that white collar crimes that wipe out people's economic security are equal to rape and murder and that when thousands of people lose their future, it certainly adds to the social ills of the country - including crime. I did not say it added to the rates of murder or rape.
Why are you twisting what I've said? Doing that is also trolling because there is no rational reason for doing so unless you just don't understand what you are reading. In that case it would not be trolling, of course. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| The reason for the question was I found myself absolutely stunned you could have so little knowledge of sociology and psychology. |
Are you a trained psychologist / sociologist? If not, then you don't know any more about those two fields than anybody else on this board.
Anyway, your troll remark was part of your response to my post challenging HD's belief that violent crime is a result of economic downturns. So you lumped your opinion in with his. Take greater pains, my friend. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| If I need to explain to you the rise in crime with virtually every serious economic downturn, well... no amount of "teaching" is going to help you. |
Yes, crime does go up in economic downturns. However, the reason that crime has massively increased over the last 50 years, in contrast to the large increase in people's living standards, is directly related to the breakdown of the family, traditional values and the rise in illegitimacy. This is certainly true in the UK. In the 1950s, Britain had huge slums and real poverty in the aftermath of WW2. Rationing was still in effect and many people had no central heating and few modern conveniences. Yet, the crime rate was minimal. Since then real poverty has been eradicated, healthcare and education provided to all and prosperity has risen across all sections of society. Yet since then, crime has increase ten fold. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| bigverne wrote: |
| Yes, crime does go up in economic downturns. However, the reason that crime has massively increased over the last 50 years, in contrast to the large increase in people's living standards, is directly related to the breakdown of the family, traditional values and the rise in illegitimacy. This is certainly true in the UK. In the 1950s, Britain had huge slums and real poverty in the aftermath of WW2. Rationing was still in effect and many people had no central heating and few modern conveniences. Yet, the crime rate was minimal. Since then real poverty has been eradicated, healthcare and education provided to all and prosperity has risen across all sections of society. Yet since then, crime has increase ten fold. |
Let me qualify my statement.
The current events forum is fucking stupid (but I'm killing a few minutes).
What the hell is a traditional family? You mean a second wave family largely created in the latter stages of the industrial revolution? Because the family that you're most people call 'traditional' wasn't around all that long in history. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I think you know very well what I mean. A stable environment where children are brought up by married parents. The growth of transient relationships, illegitimacy and fatherlessness is directly related to the rise in crime over the last 50 years. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| bigverne wrote: |
| I think you know very well what I mean. A stable environment where children are brought up by married parents. The growth of transient relationships, illegitimacy and fatherlessness is directly related to the rise in crime over the last 50 years. |
Nice stats, facts, and summations to back that up.
Because there's a correlation it doesn't mean there's a causation. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
I don't know about the US, but there is plenty of evidence to show that crime has increased massively in the UK over the last 50 years. There is also plenty of evidence that clearly shows that children raised in unstable family setups are far more likely to become involved in crime. If crime and prosperity have both increased since the 1950s, and real poverty has been virtually eradicated, what else is to blame for such a huge increase in crime?
I will revert with the stats later. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| bigverne wrote: |
I don't know about the US, but there is plenty of evidence to show that crime has increased massively in the UK over the last 50 years. There is also plenty of evidence that clearly shows that children raised in unstable family setups are far more likely to become involved in crime. If crime and prosperity have both increased since the 1950s, and real poverty has been virtually eradicated, what else is to blame for such a huge increase in crime?
I will revert with the stats later. |
I know there are stats the one of the number one indicators of deviant behavior is being a male from a single parent home in which the mother is the sole caregiver. But it's a correlation and not a causation. It's as likely that this behavior is caused by the subgroup of assholes who hold a low view of males from single parents homes as anything else.
As well, is the increase of crime due to a difference in reporting methods or more crime? If Korea started reporting crime based on American methods the crime rate would skyrocket. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
