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Poverty in Korea
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fiveeagles



Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alias wrote:
Seoul has very few panhandlers in comparison to other cities back in the west.


I agree. It isn't as bad as Vancouver or so it seems. I am quite surprised.
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Bee Positive



Joined: 27 Oct 2005

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:51 am    Post subject: Prostitution cures poverty--? Reply with quote

This is hypothetical and sure to provoke controversy, but here goes anyway:

One of the main reasons that you don't see quite as much blatant, undisguised poverty here in SK as in other parts of the world is . . . prostitution.

It exists everywhere, to be sure, but is clearly such a HUGE industry here in South Korea, in one form or another, that it cannot objectively be viewed as anything less than an integral and vital part of the economy. Anyone who's been here any decent length of time knows it: The dodgy barbershops, massage parlors, business clubs, basement noraebangs, etc. ad infinitum--they're EVERYWHERE!

Anecdotally:

My last job, in Kimpo City, had me living in a one-room apartment which was literally just one floor above the pink-lit basement singing room with a warning above its front and back doors that it was off-limits to youths under 19 (or 18, I forget the exact the number).

Gee, I'm living in a brothel! I mean, seriously, it's all in one building! And there's never a blush, nothing. No one thinks anything of it here.

My replacement was flown in from New Zealand and promptly put up in an Incheon love hotel, WITH A DILDO DISPENSER IN HIS ROOM, before he could be moved into my brothel over the weekend.

Never so much as a blush from the so-so proper good Confucian women running the hakwon (one ostensibly Buddhist, the other professedly Catholic). No worries, mate, this is Korea. Just don't expose any flesh in public and we'll all be fine, right? Kind of like Victorian Britain!

The poverty tie-in:

Last Friday, as chance would have it, I led an adult conversation class on the topic of homelessness. (Not my choice of subjects: we go through the book methodically and had simply come up on the Homelessness chapter.)

What do you know?: My adult students inform me that the homeless in Korea are almost all men. Why? Because women "have ways of avoiding poverty." Heh, heh, heh, nervous titters shimmering round the classroom, averted eyes, silence falling as I asked for an explanation.

OK, I'm no chump and can work it out: Women go to work in room salons, basement noraebangs, sports massages, and so forth, long before they ever spend a night in Seoul Station.

Lots of questions branch out from here (none of which my silence-stricken students would ever dream of answering when not drunk and in private), including

How many Korean men subsist on the earnings of prostitutes?

Personally, I'd like to know,

Will the current crackdown on sex-for-cash wreck the precarious balance of Korea's lower orders and lead to real social imbalances, perhaps in time unrest? Do the enforcers of morality understand what they're doing in assaulting one of society's sturdiest refuges from poverty? Do they have the "legitimate" jobs to offer those exiting the sex industry and not looking to pitch camp in the subway?

I put "legitimate" in quotes because, well, this is a far more complex issue, I submit, than little minds are prepared to admit.

Just wondering.




BEE POSITIVE
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fiveeagles wrote:
Alias wrote:
Seoul has very few panhandlers in comparison to other cities back in the west.


I agree. It isn't as bad as Vancouver or so it seems. I am quite surprised.


Less panhandlers ... MORE suicides Shocked
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Len8



Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Location: Kyungju

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a whole suburb of poor low income people and their families somewhere in Seoul. Saw an article about it in the Chosun Ilbo. They all virtually live in those plastic makeshift homes that would normally be used for growing fruit. They have their own schools and social infrastructure albeit for poverty borderline families or less than homeless.

They have some pride, but geeze

People in the hospital who are impoverished cant paye the bills of course, and their relatives are supposed to cover the expenses. What happens is that relatives or members of the families sneak into visit their sick family member and try to get out before they are pounced on to paye the bills. The hospital staff fortunately or unfortunately know this and often just turn their backs and let them go.��
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fiveeagles



Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
One of the main reasons that you don't see quite as much blatant, undisguised poverty here in SK as in other parts of the world is . . . prostitution.


Really? I am surprised, because everything seems so innocent. I feel like I am in a the 50's.
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Hater Depot



Joined: 29 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Barbershops", noraebangs, juicy girls, streetwalkers, Hooker Hill, coffee girls, massage parlors, hostess bars... did I miss anything? It's not like they're really secretive about it. I used to walk outside in the mornings and every car would have a little "business card" with naked girls and a phone number. (They come to your house.) Nor was there any shortage of fliers with maps and directions and assurances that they accept credit cards.

I have a feeling this may be the reason that no Korean woman has ever believed me when I say I've never been to a prostitute.
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seoulmon



Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bee Positive wrote:
This is hypothetical and sure to provoke controversy, but here goes anyway:

One of the main reasons that you don't see quite as much blatant, undisguised poverty here in SK as in other parts of the world is . . . prostitution.

It exists everywhere, to be sure, but is clearly such a HUGE industry here in South Korea, in one form or another, that it cannot objectively be viewed as anything less than an integral and vital part of the economy. Anyone who's been here any decent length of time knows it: The dodgy barbershops, massage parlors, business clubs, basement noraebangs, etc. ad infinitum--they're EVERYWHERE!

Anecdotally:

My last job, in Kimpo City, had me living in a one-room apartment which was literally just one floor above the pink-lit basement singing room with a warning above its front and back doors that it was off-limits to youths under 19 (or 18, I forget the exact the number).

Gee, I'm living in a brothel! I mean, seriously, it's all in one building! And there's never a blush, nothing. No one thinks anything of it here.

My replacement was flown in from New Zealand and promptly put up in an Incheon love hotel, WITH A DILDO DISPENSER IN HIS ROOM, before he could be moved into my brothel over the weekend.

Never so much as a blush from the so-so proper good Confucian women running the hakwon (one ostensibly Buddhist, the other professedly Catholic). No worries, mate, this is Korea. Just don't expose any flesh in public and we'll all be fine, right? Kind of like Victorian Britain!

The poverty tie-in:

Last Friday, as chance would have it, I led an adult conversation class on the topic of homelessness. (Not my choice of subjects: we go through the book methodically and had simply come up on the Homelessness chapter.)

What do you know?: My adult students inform me that the homeless in Korea are almost all men. Why? Because women "have ways of avoiding poverty." Heh, heh, heh, nervous titters shimmering round the classroom, averted eyes, silence falling as I asked for an explanation.

OK, I'm no chump and can work it out: Women go to work in room salons, basement noraebangs, sports massages, and so forth, long before they ever spend a night in Seoul Station.

Lots of questions branch out from here (none of which my silence-stricken students would ever dream of answering when not drunk and in private), including

How many Korean men subsist on the earnings of prostitutes?

Personally, I'd like to know,

Will the current crackdown on sex-for-cash wreck the precarious balance of Korea's lower orders and lead to real social imbalances, perhaps in time unrest? Do the enforcers of morality understand what they're doing in assaulting one of society's sturdiest refuges from poverty? Do they have the "legitimate" jobs to offer those exiting the sex industry and not looking to pitch camp in the subway?

I put "legitimate" in quotes because, well, this is a far more complex issue, I submit, than little minds are prepared to admit.

Just wondering.




BEE POSITIVE


Good Post!

I would just like to add that one of the reason that us ENGLISH teachers don't see the poor side of Korea, is that we English teachers live in a bubble.

Many of us live in the richest parts of Korea: Kang-nam, Chong-ro and so on. Once you learn Korean and speak to Koreans and read Korean newspapers you beging to realize that there is a lot of fustration and anger about the seperation of wealth. People who are rich can afford to learn English. And English, for better or worse, is a skill you need to succeede in Korea. Sure, some people who have a knack for languages can learn English but most people need access to books, native speakers or tutors.

I think we see this fustration as the "anti-forigner" anger.

By the way, it's completely different in Japan. English tutors are affordible. At the lower end of the scale a japanese worker will earn about 700 yen per hour. An English tutor is 2-3k yen per hour. Hire a tutor with two of your friends and as you see, the price is on the lower side.

Likewise, I noticed the relationship between Japanese and foreigners is much more aggreeable.
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fiveeagles



Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Many of us live in the richest parts of Korea: Kang-nam, Chong-ro and so on.


I have travelled around Jeju, Seoul and Jeonju and still haven't seen real homelessness. I have seen poverty, but no desperation like home. In Van, there are hundreds, if not thousands, wandering the streets with no place to live. Most of those who are homeless are wasted on drugs.

I saw more homeless in one day in Japan, than I have seen here during my 4 months in Korea.
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jajdude



Joined: 18 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a huge egomaniac I thought I would be mentioned in this thread.
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brento1138



Joined: 17 Nov 2004

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:59 am    Post subject: Re: Poverty in Korea Reply with quote

fiveeagles wrote:
What kind of poverty is there in Korea? In Japan, one of our churches feed the poor everyday. They also have a work option for them. Are these needed in Korea? Are there people who go hungry here.

I have had a few opinions, but would like to hear what others have to say.

Thanks


I come from Vancouver, a city ranked by many organizations as one of the best in the world. But what these organizations don't mention, is the overwhelming poverty in downtown Vancouver / east Hastings. It's serious. It's crazy. To be driving down a street full of big business and a block away are the homeless crack addicts, drug pushers, crazies, mentally handicapped people, gang members, etc. Some are only semi-homeless, as in they use whatever money they do get from the government to band together with others to live in "hotels." But you can't walk downtown and NOT get asked to give change. And some people really get in your face.

Vancouver is so ugly these days. Social problems galore. And the problem has spread far beyond the downtown /east hastings area.

Now, from what I've seen, in Korea, there doesn't seem to be much poverty. "Seem" as in I never see it. I don't know where it is. To me, Korea looks like a happy, middle-class society with very few homeless. The only homelessness I ever saw was when I went to the Seoul or Suwon train stations. That's pretty much it. A couple beggars. But not whole streets FULL of homeless people like back in Canada. They simply have their hands out, with their heads on the ground in shame, asking for change. Back in Canada, they are alot more agressive in getting change from people.

Uggghh. Vancouver... it's gettin' ugly. Changed alot since I was younger. I'll probably have alot of that "reverse" culture shock when I get back. I remember walking down commercial drive, and seeing all the people around me... it was shocking back then too.

But imo I think Korea has a "working culture" that Canada lacks. Too much face to be lost here in being poor. There's alot of shame in Korea being homeless. In Canada, you can be homeless, and get 3 square meals (& a couple fixes) a day.

From the "looks" perspective, I'd say Korea looks much better than Canada. But who knows what's underneath all these good looks...
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