| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Do you think Dave should change his policy for the Korean job offered forum |
| No, dave's Korea job board is just fine as it is |
|
20% |
[ 9 ] |
| Yes, only accept ads that meet the "EFL-Law" standards |
|
37% |
[ 17 ] |
| Dave should accept all ads but should tell us which jobs have met the standards |
|
42% |
[ 19 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 45 |
|
| Author |
Message |
Red
Joined: 05 Jul 2004
|
 Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:03 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| If a person who looks on this board looks at the forums even for only a few weeks s/he will get a pretty good idea of what to expect, even without asking a question. |
Given that it takes on average three years for Sperling to bother turning on an account here, that's pretty much all they can do. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
buymybook
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Location: Telluride
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Since when are EFL-Law standards the top of the echelon? I wouldn't trust that site any more than another. Stupid question! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jazblanc77
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
First, this change isn't going to happen. Make your own conclusions as to why.
Second, the newbies need to grow half a brain and attune their spidey-senses a little, just like all the rest of us in Korea had to. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SuperHero
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Superhero Hideout
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| There already IS. There are many people on this board who will respond to a question based on the above. If a person who looks on this board looks at the forums even for only a few weeks s/he will get a pretty good idea of what to expect, even without asking a question. Information that will "potentially save their ass" is here for the asking. |
Most teachers in country don't look at this board and many if not most newbies only look at the job board. Naivete goes a long way in keeping recruiters alive and prospering. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| SuperHero wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| There already IS. There are many people on this board who will respond to a question based on the above. If a person who looks on this board looks at the forums even for only a few weeks s/he will get a pretty good idea of what to expect, even without asking a question. Information that will "potentially save their ass" is here for the asking. |
Most teachers in country don't look at this board and many if not most newbies only look at the job board. Naivete goes a long way in keeping recruiters alive and prospering. |
The situation that I replied to was presupposing that the hypotheticial teacher(s) in question WAS/WERE looking at the board though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mack the knife
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: standing right behind you...
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 4:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
A little common sense goes a long way.
People get screwed over by their bosses and their contracts every single minute of the day in every single country. Yes, even in Leichtenstein.
We live in the INFORMATION AGE. What an amazing thing! If people who desire to teach English in Korea don't hit this website (or one of the many others like it) before they make it over here, thus arming them with indispensible knowledge such as how to deal with unscrupulous hogwon owners, they obviously haven't done their homework and frankly deserve whatever they get.
The hunter who leaves his home without a spear brings home no meat.
Last edited by mack the knife on Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Marcilla
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Red wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| If a person who looks on this board looks at the forums even for only a few weeks s/he will get a pretty good idea of what to expect, even without asking a question. |
Given that it takes on average three years for Sperling to bother turning on an account here, that's pretty much all they can do. |
haha, he turned mine on within like 24 hours of submitting the form, a couple of weeks ago |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dg611
Joined: 11 Jun 2004
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 8:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
People get screwed over by their bosses and their contracts every single minute of the day in every single country. Yes, even Leichtenstein.
We live in the INFORMATION AGE. What an amazing thing! If people who desire to teach English in Korea don't hit this website (or one of the many others like it) before they make it over here, thus arming them with indispensible knowledge such as how to deal with unscrupulous hogwon owners, they obviously haven't done their homework and frankly deserve whatever they get. |
The problem is that because these unscrupulous recruiters and employers are able to find the spearless hunters so easily....it means that employers all over Korea can find cheap workers that they can hire and fire on a whim and wont dare ask for a raise....this means that the salaries for those of us who have been here a while stay lower than they should be...the recruiters have created a bear market of teachers...
we can't ask for a raise because they can get some spearless dodo from kissmygrits, arkansas to come over here and fill in the space until they can find someone who wont ask for more money.
This effects everyone by keeping the working wage for teachers unnaturally low and stable. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chronicpride
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| dg611 wrote: |
| Quote: |
People get screwed over by their bosses and their contracts every single minute of the day in every single country. Yes, even Leichtenstein.
We live in the INFORMATION AGE. What an amazing thing! If people who desire to teach English in Korea don't hit this website (or one of the many others like it) before they make it over here, thus arming them with indispensible knowledge such as how to deal with unscrupulous hogwon owners, they obviously haven't done their homework and frankly deserve whatever they get. |
The problem is that because these unscrupulous recruiters and employers are able to find the spearless hunters so easily....it means that employers all over Korea can find cheap workers that they can hire and fire on a whim and wont dare ask for a raise....this means that the salaries for those of us who have been here a while stay lower than they should be...the recruiters have created a bear market of teachers...
we can't ask for a raise because they can get some spearless dodo from kissmygrits, arkansas to come over here and fill in the space until they can find someone who wont ask for more money.
This effects everyone by keeping the working wage for teachers unnaturally low and stable. |
Recruiters are responding to the demand set by schools, who are responding to the insatiable thirst and competitiveness set by Korean parents.
The reason why garbage jobs are often being filled and will continue to be filled, is not just due to the lack of a teacher's awareness of this industry. A big factor is the hiring practices that have been culturally ingrained and built around the stigma of being taught by a young, fresh face from North America, preferably a thin, attractive female. The further a teacher is from that preferred hiring mold, the tougher it is for them them to get a job. As a result, there are teachers on the far end of that hiring spectrum, who may be qualified to teach here and do a damn good job of it, but unfortunately, they may be 300lbs, 50 years old, and have a thick Irish accent, for example. Stories abound of guys like this who are job-hunting for months, and then they finally say *beep* it and sign with a cheap school who's been trying to find someone to sign a 1.7 contract with shady fine print.
That's not to say that hiring practices cannot be shifted through improved job and industry awareness, but there will always be bottom-feeders and one should be prepared to accept the reality of that. We have to cut our losses on some fruitless industry issues and try to dedicate more time into creating more expanded awareness for the newbs that don't need to settle for any offer and can afford to choose between recruiter A and recruiter B. My ad rating proposal on the EFL-Law thread deals with this approach. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| chronicpride wrote: |
[This is pretty much what I've been saying in the EFL-Law thread. I support more visibility and accessibility to the right information on this site and others. Have Dave put a 'use at your own risk' and cautionary advice right at the top of his job board and also make recruiters and schools aware of your expectations. If that doesn't work after some time, then escalate and get a little firmer.
Instead, over at EFL-Law, they want to him to immediately force all jobs ads to comply with a list of terms that they want. If Dave doesn't fall into line, they're hinting at lobbying the labor board to file claim to have Eslcafe blocked by the Korean ISPs, leaving all schools, recruiters, and teachers in country to be unable to access this site. They've also sent the same message to Pusanweb, Eslpro, and WorknPlay. |
So what is happening? Any news? Did Dave decide to play hardball and EFL-law fall into line? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chronicpride
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Keeping with tradition, it fizzled out, because of lack of follow-thru. IMO, the idea that was left on the table was a good one, but it appears that the 4 or 5 people that originally cared enough to call for change, didn't actually care enough to see something through.
This is another reason why teachers are hesitant and cynical to line up their support on industry issues. These ESL online communities over here are riddled with half-baked ideas, followed by peanut gallery cheerleaders saying 'oh boy, look out Korea, here we come!', and then a minor setback(in this case, a strong retort from WnP over why they feel they are legally in the clear) causes the whole train to run out of gas. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
| buymybook wrote: |
| Since when are EFL-Law standards the top of the echelon? I wouldn't trust that site any more than another. Stupid question! |
Based on my recent experience there I wouldn't trust their judgement of anything. What a waste of time it was joining their site. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
There is one suggestion I would like to make about the structure and layout of the Korean jobs forum. I think job advertisements from recruiters should be separated from direct ads placed by employers. A lot of times the recruiters are just trawling for resumes and don't advertise specific jobs at all, and it makes it very hard to use the forum when these are all mixed up together.
I don't think it would be very difficult to redesign the forum so that it is similar to this one, with a 'recruiters positions' thread and a 'direct advertisers' thread. It would make it easier for job hunters who don't want to deal with recruiters.
Also, what is the point of having a 'China jobs' thread, when most advertisers ignore it and go ahead and put jobs for China in the 'International' forum anyway? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
