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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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 Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:11 am Post subject: |
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| I think France and French culture will still exist. |
If Islam becomes the dominant religion in France, and Arab Islamic culture the dominant culture, how exactly, will French culture still exist? As a benighted oppressed minority perhaps, like the Copts in Egypt? Who the hell would want that? Surely, the French have a right to protect and sustain their own culture and way of life.
Although, I doubt you are worrying, since oppression of religious minorities 'has nothing to do with Islam'. |
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ed4444
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:34 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
If Islam becomes the dominant religion in France, and Arab Islamic culture the dominant culture, how exactly, will French culture still exist?
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"The study L'Islam en France et les reactions aux attentats du 11 septembre 2001, R�sultats d�taill�s, of the Institut Fran�ais de l'Opinion Public, (28 September 2001) found that of people of Muslim extraction:
36% self-describe as "observant believers"
20% claim to regularly go to the mosque on Fridays.
70% said they "observe Ramadan".
This would amount to a number of roughly 1.5 million French Muslims who are "observant believers", another 1.5 million without religious belief who culturally identify with Islam enough to observe Ramadan, and 1 million of "Muslim extraction" with no strong religious or cultural ties to Islam.
The French Muslim population currently has a higher birth rate than non-Muslims, though the numbers are dropping."
This is why I am not worrying. That will not happen. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| This would amount to a number of roughly 1.5 million French Muslims who are "observant believers", another 1.5 million without religious belief who culturally identify with Islam enough to observe Ramadan, and 1 million of "Muslim extraction" with no strong religious or cultural ties to Islam. |
Whether they go to the Mosque or not, they still bring along all of the cultural baggage from Arab countries, and if France becomes majority Arab, or majority muslim (whether observant or not) it is no longer France, a part of the West, but an extension of North Africa. Why would anyone want this? |
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ed4444
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
Dude catholicism is not christianity.
It is an offshoot, a perversion of true christianity and one of the biggest persecutors of christians down the centuries- competing even with islam for the title of "most christians killed".
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Rapier, I think you may have been in Korea too long.
Catholicism is a Roman offshoot of the original Christian religion. All of the other Western European Christian groups were offshoots of Catholicism.
But if what you are saying is true that means the only real Christians are the Orthodox Christians which means that true Christianity is limited to Eastern Europe and the Middle East. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| ed4444 wrote: |
| rapier wrote: |
Dude catholicism is not christianity.
It is an offshoot, a perversion of true christianity and one of the biggest persecutors of christians down the centuries- competing even with islam for the title of "most christians killed".
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Rapier, I think you may have been in Korea too long.
Catholicism is a Roman offshoot of the original Christian religion. All of the other Western European Christian groups were offshoots of Catholicism.
But if what you are saying is true that means the only real Christians are the Orthodox Christians which means that true Christianity is limited to Eastern Europe and the Middle East. |
The only true christianity is that which follows the bible.
I'm not entirely sure what catholics believe, but it sure ain't what is commanded in the bible.
Worshipping God's mother instead of god himself: praying to a human representative (confession) instead of to God: banning bibles down the centuries: barring priests from marrying: crowding the place with statues and idols: being more about money and show of material wealth: being heavilly involved in politics and even warfare (Nazi gold was signed over to the vatican).
All of the above is quite against, in fact an abomination of, christianity as presented in the bible.
I could go on but I notice you pay no attention to posts over 5 lines long, and this topic has already been done on a different thread. |
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ed4444
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:45 am Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
The only true christianity is that which follows the bible.
I'm not entirely sure what catholics believe, but it sure ain't what is commanded in the bible. |
Is there an named organisation within the Christian spectrum that you would say follows the bible accurately? I am genuinely curious.
| rapier wrote: |
I could go on but I notice you pay no attention to posts over 5 lines long, and this topic has already been done on a different thread. |
Thanks for not challenging my attention span!! |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:30 am Post subject: |
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Rapier wrote:
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I'm not entirely sure what catholics believe, but it sure ain't what is commanded in the bible.
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| banning bibles down the centuries |
Seeing as how the Bible wasn't compiled until AFTER all the books had been written, I'm curious as to how the Bible can contain an injunction against banning the Bible.
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| being heavilly involved in politics and even warfare |
Weren't you the guy quoting Ian Paisley on here a few weeks back? Yeah, he's never been involved in politics or warfare, eh?
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| praying to a human representative (confession) instead of to God |
Uhh, have you ever actually been to confession?
Oh, and Rapier. Since you're so hot for protestantism, here's a little tract by a man who had a slight modicum of influence on its theology. I know he might be a bit of an obscure figure, but I'm curious as to how you think this squares with the teachings of Christ.
http://tinyurl.com/5psu8 |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:11 am Post subject: |
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Let's get this back on topic shall we.
This article shows what some of the political ramifications of the recent violent uprising might be.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1116/p06s01-woeu.html
French leaders tilt right
After weeks of unrest, tough anti-immigrant stances are resounding with a broader section of French voters.
ST. CLOUD, FRANCE � Through the antique binoculars in the study of his mansion in this plush Parisian suburb, Jean Marie Le Pen could almost see the fires burning in less favored districts surrounding the French capital.
And the leader of France's extreme-right National Front party says the recent wave of violence by mostly immigrant-descended youths has proved his antiforeigner stance right.
"We have won several thousand new members in the past two weeks," he exults. "People are saying, 'They said you were an extremist, but you were a visionary.' "
But Mr. Le Pen, who shocked the nation three years ago by winning second place in presidential elections on an anti-immigrant platform, should watch his flanks, says Alan Duhamel, one of France's foremost political commentators.
The conservative ruling Popular Union Movement (UMP), led by Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy, is seeking to outmaneuver Le Pen by stealing his votes, says Mr. Duhamel. "Everybody is moving right," he argues. "The further right you go, the stronger you are."
As the conservative government has stumbled, while the opposition Socialist party appeared in disarray, the only political group to emerge from the crisis with its colors flying is the anti-immigration National Front, the provocative bugbear of the French political establishment. |
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ed4444
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| I think its a bit too early to be commenting on the political ramifications of these riots. It will take a bit of time to see what difference it will make to the average voter's attitude. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| I think its a bit too early to be commenting on the political ramifications of these riots. It will take a bit of time to see what difference it will make to the average voter's attitude. |
This is far too much common sense for me. I would much rather make dire predictions about the future and pretend they are real. It reinforces my grim perception of reality. My ideal is to whip enough people into a frenzy that we can create a self-fulfilling prophecy. |
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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| we can create a self-fulfilling prophecy. |
Self-fulfilling prophesy? Please elaborate. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:43 am Post subject: |
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| My ideal is to whip enough people into a frenzy that we can create a self-fulfilling prophecy. |
Shhhh....don't talk about the problems of a growing muslim population and it will go away. Same goes for Islamic terrorism. If you draw attention to it, you risk 'alienating' muslims, who will then be 'forced' into the hands of extremists. So, best not to talk about it. Just keep quiet. |
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ed4444
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:55 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
Shhhh....don't talk about the problems of a growing muslim population and it will go away. Same goes for Islamic terrorism. If you draw attention to it, you risk 'alienating' muslims, who will then be 'forced' into the hands of extremists. So, best not to talk about it. Just keep quiet. |
You should feign ignorance of your own sarcasm and take your own advice. |
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