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kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
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 Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:53 am Post subject: Pension Scam-O-Rama |
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Let's say, hypothetically, that a certain hagwon had been employing more than 5 people (like say... 20 or so) without paying them pension benefits or medical insurance.
For some reason, they decide to straighten up and play by the rules, and it is announced that a pension and medical benefits will be available in the New Year. Hooray!
But wait... what's this? 4.5% of the income will be deducted from the employee, and the other 4.5% will be taken out of the employee's salary? Pardon? Don't worry, the hypothetical hagwon says... you'll get all the money back at the end.
This hypothetical employee asked a few questions to clarify whether he or she was in fact being bamboozled, and was struck speechless.
Seriously. Do I look like a complete idiot or is it just the monkey suit and clown shoes I'm wearing??? |
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ajuma
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Location: Anywere but Seoul!!
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:07 am Post subject: Re: Pension Scam-O-Rama |
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| kermo wrote: |
Let's say, hypothetically, that a certain hagwon had been employing more than 5 people (like say... 20 or so) without paying them pension benefits or medical insurance.
For some reason, they decide to straighten up and play by the rules, and it is announced that a pension and medical benefits will be available in the New Year. Hooray!
But wait... what's this? 4.5% of the income will be deducted from the employee, and the other 4.5% will be taken out of the employee's salary? Pardon? Don't worry, the hypothetical hagwon says... you'll get all the money back at the end.
This hypothetical employee asked a few questions to clarify whether he or she was in fact being bamboozled, and was struck speechless.
Seriously. Do I look like a complete idiot or is it just the monkey suit and clown shoes I'm wearing??? |
If you meant that the employER will pay 4.5% and the employEE will pay 4.5 %, that's normal. If you have to pay the entire 9% that's NOT normal! BUT the statement that "you'll get it all back" may not be true, depending on what country you're from. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:02 am Post subject: Re: Pension Scam-O-Rama |
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| ajuma wrote: |
| kermo wrote: |
Let's say, hypothetically, that a certain hagwon had been employing more than 5 people (like say... 20 or so) without paying them pension benefits or medical insurance.
For some reason, they decide to straighten up and play by the rules, and it is announced that a pension and medical benefits will be available in the New Year. Hooray!
But wait... what's this? 4.5% of the income will be deducted from the employee, and the other 4.5% will be taken out of the employee's salary? Pardon? Don't worry, the hypothetical hagwon says... you'll get all the money back at the end.
This hypothetical employee asked a few questions to clarify whether he or she was in fact being bamboozled, and was struck speechless.
Seriously. Do I look like a complete idiot or is it just the monkey suit and clown shoes I'm wearing??? |
If you meant that the employER will pay 4.5% and the employEE will pay 4.5 %, that's normal. If you have to pay the entire 9% that's NOT normal! BUT the statement that "you'll get it all back" may not be true, depending on what country you're from. |
Yes, it's irritating not knowing if Kermo simply made a typo in the OP, or if she was literally (hypothetically) told THOSE VERY WORDS. But the "bamboozled", "speechless" and "monkey suit" remarks leads me to think that those WEREN'T typos, and that the hypothetical hagwon is doing a number on their hypothetical weygooks.
"Don't worry, Kermo Teacher -- you only pay 4.5%. The other 4.5%, that's just deducted from your salary. That ain't nothing for you to concern yourself with. Doncha see? YOU, PHYSICALLY, pay only 4.5%, while WE DEDUCT 4.5%. What could be fairer?  "
(Paging Messrs Abbott and Costello!) |
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ajuma
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Location: Anywere but Seoul!!
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:10 am Post subject: |
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JongnoGuru: Ah, but "bamboozled" and "speechless" sound like newbie words!! 
Could be s/he made a typo....or maybe not! |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| ajuma wrote: |
| JongnoGuru: Ah, but "bamboozled" and "speechless" sound like newbie words!! |
Why is that? Because teachers who've been in the business longer will just consider that sort of trickery as par for the course? Personally, I think it's sad when people lose their ability to be staggered by Korea's audacious flimflammery (whether or not that's what's going on here).
Last edited by JongnoGuru on Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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JacktheCat
Joined: 08 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| Also remember that if you start making penison and medical payments part way through your E-2, you're going to have to make "back payments" to make up for the months you missed. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| JacktheCat wrote: |
| Also remember that if you start making penison and medical payments part way through your E-2, you're going to have to make "back payments" to make up for the months you missed. |
I bet that can get painful when you're having to cover your employer's half as well. |
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ajuma
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Location: Anywere but Seoul!!
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| ajuma wrote: |
| JongnoGuru: Ah, but "bamboozled" and "speechless" sound like newbie words!! |
Why is that? Because teachers who've been in the business longer will just consider that sort of trickery as par for the course? Personally, I think it's sad when people lose their ability to be staggered by Korea's audacious flimflammery (whether or not that's what's going on here). |
No...because people who have been "in the business" know what to expect. When a school offers "medical and pension", we know that we'll probably have to pay 50% of the cost.
I think that there are very few (if any!) "home-country" jobs that pay ALL of BOTH! |
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ajuma
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Location: Anywere but Seoul!!
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| JacktheCat wrote: |
| Also remember that if you start making penison and medical payments part way through your E-2, you're going to have to make "back payments" to make up for the months you missed. |
I bet that can get painful when you're having to cover your employer's half as well. |
As good as my school is (and it's REALLY good!) they do sometimes neglect to deduct the pension/medical portion. Teachers have had to make up 3-4 months worth...without notice! The consolation is that I'll get back double what I pay in...no matter when I paid it! |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| ajuma wrote: |
| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| ajuma wrote: |
| JongnoGuru: Ah, but "bamboozled" and "speechless" sound like newbie words!! |
Why is that? Because teachers who've been in the business longer will just consider that sort of trickery as par for the course? Personally, I think it's sad when people lose their ability to be staggered by Korea's audacious flimflammery (whether or not that's what's going on here). |
No...because people who have been "in the business" know what to expect. When a school offers "medical and pension", we know that we'll probably have to pay 50% of the cost.
I think that there are very few (if any!) "home-country" jobs that pay ALL of BOTH! |
Okay, but wait a minute. Why do you think Kermo launched this thread? Because the hagwon told her they'd pay 50% of the cost (though that's not what the OP says), but since Kermo's such a newbie she thinks that means they're bamboozling her? Or might it be because (as the OP does say) the hagwon told her that SHE'D have to pay 100% of the cost?
or are those typos? |
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ajuma
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Location: Anywere but Seoul!!
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:27 am Post subject: |
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It could be because she doesn't know that paying 50% is normal...OR because they said that she has to pay 100%!
Until she posts what she meant, then we're arguing about nothing! |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:18 am Post subject: |
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Kermo,
Everyone is waiting for you to clear up what you meant in your original post.
Did you mean: that your employer is going to reduce your monthly pay level by 4.5% and then begin the new program. Then, under the new program, at the new pay level, the employer would then deduct the 4.5% employee contribution which he would match by paying 4.5%.??? |
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Pak Yu Man
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Location: The Ida galaxy
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 11:13 am Post subject: |
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Maybe immigration caught Kermo with a fake degree  |
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kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| JacktheCat wrote: |
| Also remember that if you start making penison and medical payments part way through your E-2, you're going to have to make "back payments" to make up for the months you missed. |
She mentioned that. I recalled when I had to pay 140,000 won to have a bandage put on my finger in the emergency room, and wondered what was the use of having retrospective fees without retrospective coverage. |
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kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Pak Yu Man wrote: |
| Maybe immigration caught Kermo with a fake degree |
Nope, it's ready to be brought in (for the second time) to be duly inspected.
It's more likely that the hagwon was caught not paying pension.
Yes, it's a scam, not because I'm being asked to pay 4.5%, but because I'm being told to pay all 9%. "It's your choice! You don't have to have pension or medical coverage! We're deducting the other 4.5% from your salary, but you'll get it all back, so don't worry!"
I've asked for this little scheme to be laid out on paper, and if in fact it's as bad as I suspect, I will alert other teachers at the school and we will have a meeting. The lovely English-language pension/benefits website is absolutely clear on the employer's responsibility, as is our contract, so I'm wondering how they thought they would pull this off. |
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