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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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 Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 11:09 am Post subject: |
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Hahaha 
I dare say you might find that a good % of muslims in britain commit less crime than other immigrant ethnicities.But that doesn't mean they've integrated.
The biggest crime is separating yourself culturally from the nation of "infidels" you have benefitted from for 3 generations.
"We'd never steal a woman's handbag, but we'd stone her to death". |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| Well then, I suppose we need a definition of integration from you, and we should be able to compare them to other societies that have joined places like England, Canada and the US. What do you define it as? Linguistic? Intermarriage? We can't say religious because you're talking about muslims and they cease to become muslims upon taking up another religion. So what is your definition of the word integration you claim them to have never done before, anywhere? |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
Hahaha
I dare say you might find that a good % of muslims in britain commit less crime than other immigrant ethnicities.But that doesn't mean they've integrated. |
Well, way to go- you've certainly managed to convince Bigverne and Dulouz.
The rest of us still think of you as that shit-smeared lunatic. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 11:41 am Post subject: |
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[quote="mithridates"]
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| I suppose we need a definition of integration from you |
Its when 70% of you don't support violent terrorism against your your fellow citizens, 3 generations after you've arrived in the country. You even allow your kids to marry one.
| Quote: |
| they cease to become muslims upon taking up another religion. |
That would be right and handy, but muslims don't allow other muslims to defect.You can sign in anytime but you can never leave.
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| So what is your definition of the word integration you claim them to have never done before, anywhere? |
I never said muslims have never integrated anywhere. I merely challenged someone to find an example of it. Tall order i know. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 11:51 am Post subject: |
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All right, I'm off to bed now but here is the task:
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| Its when 70% of you don't support violent terrorism against your your fellow citizens, 3 generations after you've arrived in the country. You even allow your kids to marry one. |
Find one country where that has occurred. Third-generation muslims, with under 30% support for violence against their fellow citizens = integration. Plus marriage with others. I assume that's 70% as well. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| rapier wrote: |
| bigverne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I'm just saying I don't believe that it has ever really been achieved |
What are you talking about? People have been coming to Britain for centuries and they have intermarried and assimilated. In fact, second generation Irish in England tend to marry English and are almost completely assimilated. It helps that they are White, English speaking and Christian obviously. Blacks also have very high rates of intermarriage, and to a lesser extent so do Chinese. |
Exactly. buts it should be fairly clear to anybody that muslims never integrate. Not in a thousand years. They take over. Their religion is the only thing holding them down, keeping them separate.
Can anybody cite an example of muslims integrating successfully, anywhere, ever?
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I didn't think so. |
Well, I was about to list a few countries but I suspect you will pull up a blog somewhere on how a muslim in one of those countries did something bad to discredit the statement. So let's define what you mean. Here's what I propose as a definition:
Take a country, look at their ethnic groups, and if a primary muslim ethnic group has integrated better than the average of all other non-muslim ethnic groups, then you are wrong. Deal?
IOW, country A has 100 immigrants. 20 are muslims and 80 are not. The total number of crimes committed by the 80 non-muslims is 80 (some people committed two and others none). Out of the muslims, some are from Indonesia, others from Pakistan, etc. Let's say their total number of crimes is 21. However, Indonesians on average commit two crimes per person. But the Egyptians commit an average of 0.2 per person, below the national average. Thus, we have a muslim group being better citizens than the rest and we will assume a smoother integration because the proof is in the pudding.
If you'll agree to these terms we can find some numbers to test it, otherwise I'll just consider the statement to be bluster. Deal? |
Countries were Muslims have successfully integrated:
Singapore
United States of America
Canada
Rwanda (only ones who were neither victims nor instigators of the genocide in 1994)
Kenya
Tanzania
I'd wager there are a few other sub-saharan countries out there that fit the bill as well.
Last edited by bucheon bum on Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Countries were Muslims have successfully integrated:
Singapore
United States of America
Canada
Rwanda (only ones who either victims or instigators of the genocide in 1994)
Kenya
Tanzania |
I'd give you Singapore, and I can't say I know much about the African nations mentioned. However, I don't think the US or Canada should even be mentioned as the muslim populations there are very small. In countries like France, the Netherlands, Britain and Sweden the muslim population forms a larger percentage of the population and is hence, more problematic. I would expect Canada to experience the same problems with Islamic intolerance when the muslim population gets larger and starts to grow in confidence. |
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hypnotist
Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Location: I wish I were a sock
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| I'd give you Singapore, and I can't say I know much about the African nations mentioned. However, I don't think the US or Canada should even be mentioned as the muslim populations there are very small. In countries like France, the Netherlands, Britain and Sweden the muslim population forms a larger percentage of the population and is hence, more problematic. I would expect Canada to experience the same problems with Islamic intolerance when the muslim population gets larger and starts to grow in confidence. |
Something I only just noticed - there was no rioting in Marseille, despite it being one of the biggest (or the biggest?) Muslim city in France. And, from what I've read, tensions are rather lower there than in other places in France with fewer Muslims.
There are cities in the US with huge Muslim populations, too, and again you can see a great deal of integration.
The places where integration isn't happening well tends to be the places where the Muslims are ghettoised and unemployed.
Food for thought. |
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jaganath69
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| dulouz wrote: |
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At least you are open and comfortable with your racism.
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Yes, after reading this mishmosh of explanations for 4 pages I just see a mess. When I seep into supremism, feel free to smack me but I see plenty of validity in racialism and provinciality. It does a good job of preventing mischief ie colonialism and genocide ie UK. Racism has its benefits. Do you think a racist would own a Black slave? Slave owners used to surround themselves with a 100 Black people during the day and then have sex with the Black females at night. The people with open minds are the ones that used to own slaves. Those would be Liberals. |
People who believe in the equality of all humans would own slaves? Your logic, or lack thereof is astounding. |
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jaganath69
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Bulsajo wrote: |
| rapier wrote: |
Hahaha
I dare say you might find that a good % of muslims in britain commit less crime than other immigrant ethnicities.But that doesn't mean they've integrated. |
Well, way to go- you've certainly managed to convince Bigverne and Dulouz.
I honestly wonder where you got an education from, Rapier. Must have been in apartheid era South Africa or White Rhodesia where even the dumbest white boys could shine.
The rest of us still think of you as that shit-smeared lunatic. |
I honestly wonder where you got an education from, Rapier. Must have been in apartheid era South Africa or White Rhodesia where even the dumbest white boys could shine. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| But I know how to post without double quoting. |
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jaganath69
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
| But I know how to post without double quoting. |
Well bugger me, you are the king of the internet forum retards club. Congrats.  |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:29 am Post subject: |
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| hypnotist wrote: |
Something I only just noticed - there was no rioting in Marseille, despite it being one of the biggest (or the biggest?) Muslim city in France. And, from what I've read, tensions are rather lower there than in other places in France with fewer Muslims. |
Thats because they're all muslims. Theres no French people left there to fight!
Duh.
Conflict occurs where there are 2 opposing forces, not where everyone is on the same side!!
I lived in N.Ireland for a few years. Towns with an overwhelming majority of catholics, or of protestants, were quiet and peaceful. of course it was the towns with 50/50 or 60/40 splits that experienced constant sectarian violence.
I suppose you're going to recommend now that for the sake of peace, all non-muslims should be replaced with muslims? Good one. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:30 am Post subject: |
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| It's 25% muslim there. Also the third largest Jewish population in Europe. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:34 am Post subject: |
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| jaganath69 wrote: |
| rapier wrote: |
| But I know how to post without double quoting. |
Well bugger me, you are the king of the internet forum retards club. Congrats. |
You came out of nowhere and decided to take personal offence at my opinions. instead of sticking to debating the issue, you predictably start resorting to name calling because you can't prove your points or present a winning argument.
i'd say you're about ready to join my fan club. The likes of bulsajo, Bucheon bum, manner of speaking,Yata boy and all other dudes who can't debate rationally are all there to keep you company. |
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