Korean Job Discussion Forums

jacl · Joined: 31 Oct 2005

They can't change your salary. You're under contract. Just say "No."

You know what's funny? They'll probably try to cut your salary by 50,000, take the 100,000, or whatever it is in your case, in pension and keep it all to themselves. They'll try. Then you're out 150,000/month instead of up 100,000.

My boss tried. Until I called the pension office and asked him where the money was. That was after I made two monthly contributions. There are still the first five months of my contract to consider. He said something to the effect of hagwons will do the pension thing and offer a lower salary because of it. I just decided not to fight that right now and got him to sign pay statements for every month I've been here. Just hit him with it later. That proof of what's been deducted from you is a very important weapon to have.

Reducing your monthly salary is just... Screw that noise.

jacl · Joined: 31 Oct 2005

Reducing your monthly salary reduces your pension contribution/benefit. So, it really makes no sense. And then what are they doing? Taxing you on the original salary anyway? Probably. What are you're taxes? I could use a good laught right now. They're being cheap bastards.

"I don't want to pay your pension." Boo fucking hoo. Say "No" and let them deduct the 4.5% from your salary. Just get pay statements. Call the pension office every month to see if they're making your and their contributions. If there's nothing in your account, bring it up to your boss.

ontheway · Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:48 am Post subject:

Kermo,

Now we have an idea what's up. You will pay 4.5% and so will the employer, BUT only after adjusting your salary downward. This was one of the possibilities that I had asked about.

If your contract has expired and you are renewing, of course they can do this, otherwise, it's unlikely that they can "adjust" your salary downward under the terms of your contract (guessing, since we haven't seen it). You should say no to lower pay. But perhaps you should say no to the whole pension thing if you can. You said "if I so choose" in your post.

Are you from a country that allows you to claim a refund? And why go through a battle now, pay in the money retroactively, and possibly get only your own money back later, or even nothing?" If your employer will let you opt out, perhaps you should. You could even file "exempt" and not pay in.

On the economic/accounting side of this. It is true that in reality the employee almost always pays 100% of any such government pension or social security plan. In the US, where I worked as an accountant, I did the numbers on this for numerous corporations. In every case, the employee was paying 100% (and the employer nothing) of the social security contribution. Employers know about the plan after all. It's no surprise. They just adjust all salaries downward, in advance, to account for such taxes. And yes they do it. And yes it's legal. Actually, it's absolutely necessary, as the SS taxes of the workers at most businesses exceed the net profits of the business. If they really had to pay, they'd all go bankrupt. Governments cannot repeal the "laws of economics" anymore than they can repeal the laws of gravity or evolution (despite the claims and efforts of the socialist Dem and Rep parties to do just that). I also did the computations for employers converting the status of their workers so that they would be paying into Social Security for the first time, and we reduced all the workers salaries by the amounts of the additional expenses of SS taxes, insurance etc. during the change. This was no problem under the circumstances as all were employed "at will", without a contract. Kermo has a contract, so he can hold out for his full pay.

JongnoGuru · Joined: 25 May 2004 Location: peeing on your doorstep

kermo · Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:09 pm Post subject:

kermo · Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:45 pm Post subject:

Mr. Sheet, please meet Ms. Fan.

I called the pension "hotline" (1355), heard nothing but Korean options, waited, was transferred twice, and finally connected to someone who spoke English.

I asked some questions about who is entitled to a pension, and what a "full-time" employee is versus "freelancers." The woman told me it was hard to explain but that she wanted to investigate for herself. She asked me for my workplace name and phone number. I gave it to her.

Let the jiggerypokery cease and the broohaha begin!

JongnoGuru · Joined: 25 May 2004 Location: peeing on your doorstep

ontheway · Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:40 am Post subject:

JongnoGuru,

As I explained at the end of my long posting, when companies converted the status of their workers, so that they became newly covered by SS taxes and other employee benefits, we recalculated their salaries so that the employer's share of the tax was actually paid by the employee. This was not a problem, because the workers were all employed "at will".

Kermo has a contract. We haven't seen it, but it's unlikely there is any provision allowing the employer to adjust his salary down during the term of the contract. Therefore, he can and should say NO to any downward adjustment. The employer made a contract and the employer should honor it.

At the same time, it could be to Kermo's advantage to either opt out of the pension program, or if his employer breaches the contract, to look for a new job. This could involve a battle, however.

jacl · Joined: 31 Oct 2005

Just say, "No" to the salary reduction. Say that you want pension. Have them deduct 4.5% from your pay for this. And make sure you get pay statments showing all of your deductions. Check with the pension office every once in a while to see if the proper contributions have been made. If they are not being paid, bring it up to your boss and pursue it with the pension office. If they are only paying your contributions then at least you don't lose that. Make sure that they pay at least that because it's not their money to be messing around with. Emphasize this. At least later you can go after them for their part.

Just say "No". They're being waaaaay too cheap. They're just trying, and will continue to try, to rip you off.

If it's a decent enough job then just work through the contract.

GET PAY STATEMENTS!

ontheway · Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:25 am Post subject:

Oh yeah,

I've been just overlooking this because it seems so obvious, but JACL is right

GET PAY STATEMENTS!

Everyone should do that. Even if you have to write up your own and have them sign. Do it when they pay you. Make it a ritual if they don't do it for you. They pay you. Count up the money. Write a statement. Ask them to sign it. You sign it too. A copy for them and for you. Then, you can go teach for the day.